Creators: The Art Of Capturing Snowmobiling (Dave McKinney, Tristin Ironi, Tristan Gallagher)

What's up, everybody? We are here. We are at X Games, first time back in 6 years. Yep. Correct?

Yeah, correct.

Was any Were any of you here in 20

I never was, never been.

My first time, too.

Yep. I think it is my first time as well. I was here in '14 and '16, and then missed out on the last few years, but it's been a decade. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we're here. We're on I don't know what we call it, snowmobile row, snowmobile corner. Three booths here.

We're in X Fest, I think they were calling it.

That's the appropriate name. We've got Deviant Ink, 509, Polaris holding it down for the snowmobile industry here. The track is just literally right on the other side of these walls. Yep. Super sick. And on the way here, I was talking to Tristan, and we were Okay, so we got a couple Tristans here. We got to get this straight. Yeah. What do we call you? Junior?

Junior Trapper, Junior Trapper. That it's different every day, but it's always the same if that makes sense.

We'll figure it out. I'm going to try I'm just going to try to remember and call you Junior.

Junior's good, yeah.

Let's call him Trap. Yeah.

Junior Trap. We'll do Trap. Yeah,

Trap's good.

So, on the way here, Tristan, we kind of had a fun conversation around content, and then I'm like, “Oh, you're going to be here. We're going to have like three of like the pros, like the top guys who know good content, know what is good content, and know how to create Yeah. Good content. Why don't I rally these three boys down and see if we can create some something valuable here? And I think we've come up with a pretty cool outline. I'm stoked to learn from you guys and just kind of pick your brain and what's inside. You guys have been doing this for a long time.

And I think those who are watching and listening are going to appreciate it as well. So, why don't we start with Tristan? Just like a super quick intro. I don't I'm pretty sure most people know who you guys are, but let's just kind of do just a quick Yeah, like where I'm from and work background and everything.

Yep, exactly. Yeah, so yeah, I'm from grew up in Minnesota, went to school in North Dakota, and then right when I graduated college, I started working at Arctic Cat in 2018. Worked at Arctic Cat for 6 years, and then I think I left Cat in 2023, and I've been freelance since. So, at Arctic Cat, I've had pretty much every job you can have in marketing, and then the last 2 years, I was kind of managing content for Arctic Cat off-road snow and all of Textron's brands.

Love it. Yeah, sweet. Trap.

Yep. Also, originally from Minnesota, moved out west, live in North Idaho now. I started the photography full-time professionally in 2023. Was just doing it as a hobby before then, same with sledding, and kind of combined the two way before I should have, and realized how hard both of them were, and then just like started going to Hay Days and all these events, and met the right people and learned the right things, and that part of it took off, but I moved out west, and I started working with Steven Clark was kind of my first big thing, and that was we were doing OEM shoots, we were doing gear shoots, we were doing everything.

And from there, I spent over a year with him in Idaho Falls area, and then I moved up to Coeur d'Alene, and went full freelance on my own, and not underneath him, and I've been doing that ever since. I work very closely with 509, Polaris. I have a great relationship with them and multiple other people as well.

Yeah. Awesome.

Take a guess where I'm from originally.

Minnesota?

Yeah, Minnesota. You got three Minnesota boys. Yeah, born and raised in Minnesota, and obsessed with snowmobiles at an early age, and had the dream of working for 509 to the point of where my parents are always supportive, but my mom was like, “Okay, what are you really going to do?” Cuz it was pretty far-fetched from northern Minnesota. And cha- chased that for years, worked in the snowcross circuit for a bit, handful of other things, met Steven Clark also. Steven's like the father of finding filmers, I feel like.

Cuz he worked with Steven, I worked with Steven, and then 10 years now full-time with 509, 12 or 13 including contracting with 509, so long relationship there, and yeah, keep on charging ahead with the 509 thing.

Love it. And where are you at now, sorry?

So, I'm eastern Washington, North Idaho border.

Perfect.

Like 20 minutes from him, Coeur d'Alene area.

Yep. Cool. The other thing that kind of sparked this idea is I listened to you guys's Fueling Your Passion podcast. Okay, I loved how you started out, “We are liars.” Yeah.

Hey, I like that the two of you pod- fellow podcast guys are finally together.

I know, dude. It's been long overdue. I know. I listen to all your stuff, and then it's awesome to see somebody pumping out great content.

Yeah, I mean, you guys know, it's a grind, dude. It's Yeah. It's tough to be consistent. That's why we're liars.

I know. I loved it. It's fun It's fun to do. “We are liars.” If you haven't If you haven't watched that episode, go give it a whirl. We're going to That was kind of it kind of sparked this idea of like, “Man, those guys I felt like I aligned a lot with the conversation you guys talked you guys had about ambassadors and ambassadorship, and some and the content that kind of goes into that. And so, I'm going to sprinkle in a little bit of that, and I thought this would be a great, you know, conversation,

But to kick it off, you guys the evolution of sledding content, okay? Where did it start for you guys? Like your earliest memories? I mean, I'm sure it probably all goes back to like Slednecks stuff, right? But how I mean, how does that evolution like What does that evolution look like for you guys in the form of content that we snowmobilers consume?

Yeah, like when we started or when we were consuming it and became obsessed with it.

When you were consuming it, yeah.

Yeah, for me, it was probably the same as most Minnesota kids is Slednecks, and the 509 stuff, and all the Alaska stuff, like you watch that, and you become enthralled with it, and I don't you know, I think ISOC snowcross when we were younger was a big deal as well, and X Games. So, all that together was that's the foundation, I think, of every Minnesota kid's obsession with snowmobiles.

When you guys would watch that, you know, the Slednecks stuff, the 509 stuff, was it as common, you know, back then to travel out west and get your weekend in mountain riding, or was it just more like a fairy tale dream that maybe one day I'll get to do this.

That's for sure what drives the fan base in the Midwest. I mean, if you look at like the back end of it, the analytics and stuff, is the Midwest, East Coast make up like 80% of the consumers.

For sure, yeah.

But we talked about this before, and it's a battle, it's so hard to make a trail video cool. Yeah. Granted, we love doing it. It's just a really hard thing to have a standout piece and a story along with it. So, everybody, including ourselves growing up, idolize these guys out west, and just what you said, it's like you want you try to plan a trip, or you dream of going out there someday, so you automatically focus on those riders in the west, and yeah, it the reality though, like I keep saying is that Midwest fan base is the majority of the consumer.

We all just have those aspirations to go out in the mountains and think we can maybe do a hop over. Yeah.

Yeah. I was I had a along those lines, I was talking to Nathan Titus,

Oh, yeah.

And he said something I never admit hadn't hit me before. He's like, “The evolution of snowmobiling started when he's like, “When I grew up, those who were racing and those who were like hill climbing and riding in the mountains, we all rode the same sled.” Yeah. And now everything is so you have a specific purpose for with that uses a specific machine, and everything's so specialized, and I just when he said that, I was like, “Oh, you're right, like that's how it is now.”

Yeah, guys are stretching XLTs that they were trail riding the following weekend again. Yeah, just swapping tracks, and they had one sled that does it all.

Yeah. Now that you have infinite options for what type of riding you want to do. Yep. Anyways, I thought that was a pretty interesting take that I had never really thought of, and so, I don't know, we should have a Slednecks watching party one of these nights.

Yeah, we should. He's So, he's like the slightly different generation.

I'm very different.

He's just young enough

I'm 25.

25, so

Not bad.

It's not that I didn't have access to those, but I never I didn't watch them growing up, and I was like I was a dirt bike kid when I was younger, so I was more into that, and I didn't get into sledding till a little bit older. I grew up with sleds and that kind of thing, so it was there, and I went to snowcross races and whatnot, but as far as consuming content, my sled consuming started with Early Season 509 YouTube videos, not the films.

And that really hurts David's feelings. He told me recently not that long ago that he had never watched a 509 film.

I have Yeah, never did. Oh, man. It was just YouTube stuff, and I mean, if I'm still here, I made it.

Well, that's a perfect example for this type of a

It just wasn't It wasn't relevant. I mean, I don't want to say not relevant, but it wasn't I didn't have them. I didn't know to get them. It just wasn't like in front of me. I didn't grow up around it. That kind of thing.

My So, I grew up in Southeast Idaho and grew up snowmobiling, but I grew I was snowmobiling with my family. And they weren't hooking it off anything. Yeah. And so we had a couple slednecks and 509 DVDs at the cabin. But I like I have vivid memories of being as a kid at Ponds Lodge Yeah. Eating in like back then every TV had yeah. An a DVD on. Now it's like college basketball and football and you can barely get one TV maybe with some sled content in the wintertime, but like I just I have a vivid memory of being in Ponds Lodge and all the TVs just banging with sled films. Yeah, it was a simpler time. Simpler time right there, guys.

Tough question for you. What's wrong with sledding snowmobile content these days? I got a good one, I think. You want to start in order or just whoever's ready?

I'm not good at that with a lot of stuff, but Yeah, in my opinion, I don't think there's like an epidemic problem, but if I could be nitpicky about it, I've always told everybody I just don't think there's a good enough standard of content. A lot of times cell phone clips will surpass the hard work that we do or be suffice. Like we'll have video contests for snowmobile edits and they'll be packed with cell phone clips. So there's a lot of work on our end. I think that goes into to filming and setting things up and being creative and I don't think it goes appreciated enough or it is appreciated enough.

I just don't think there's quite a standard for content in the industry. And I guess I'm basing that off of related industries or adjacent industries like motocross or other forms of racing as well. So that's my

So no standard of quality standards.

Yeah, yeah, the quality standards I think are pretty low. So

Okay. That kind of goes into mine a little bit. I think people get the idea of like, oh I want to be a sled filmer or I want to make content like them. So, I'm going to go buy a camera. Yeah. Probably the wrong camera. Don't know how to use it and then they try to do what we do and create content with a with an actual camera and turns out worse than it would if they just like use their phone. And that's not to like get them on the same level of content creation, but it's probably hurting what they're doing more than what they could do with the phone because it's a very hard thing.

You got to learn it before you take it into the backcountry because there's so much going on and there's so many ways to screw it up and do things wrong. So I think don't get too ahead of yourself because there's a lot you can do with a modern phone for the normal consumer, but if you do want to take that next level don't just leave it on auto and try and if you don't like do manual and screw it up. So if you want to do it learn it cuz it pays off.

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here.

I like a little devil's advocate.

Cuz I've been on the consumer fan base facing platform for so long now with one brand, right? And on as I agree completely with Ironi there on that. But at the same time we have to appease the masses. Yeah. And people are very low attention span now. We're just getting content every single day. Now, now, now. And depending on what's in that content they don't care what it looks like. If the epicness of what's being captured speaks for itself they could care less if it was shot in S-Log or whatever at 120 like they it doesn't matter.

So, that balance is tough and I have a perfect example just yesterday he and I were chatting about something and I looked at him and I went, dude to be honest, I'm like pretty behind on some camera tech cuz I get so caught up and just go on all these different platforms that we're doing and all these different types of shoots that we're doing and it's just speed. It's just kind of turn and burn, turn and burn. And it's at a level that we're comfortable with. Like it still is great quality, but I personally have gotten away a bit from that cinematic side of things. Just the nature of the job. So, I can see both sides of it.

I love doing the cinematic things when I get the opportunity. And even if it's just a 30-second reel that I put an extra couple hours into and it felt like this is cool, do some sound design everything. But that turn and burn is the current state of the consumer. And our goal is that next generation of that younger demographic at 509. So, we got to kind of pay attention to what they're consuming. And even though it pains me sometimes if they're stoked, I'm stoked.

Yeah, I wouldn't say and I'm not saying cell phone clips or fast stuff doesn't have a place cuz it definitely does. I'm just saying in the world of people calling themselves content creators or filmers or photographers, it's such a loose term, right? Just cuz you went and bought a Sony doesn't make you a filmmaker or a photographer or whatever, right? So that's kind of what I'm getting at. I take my phone in the backcountry more now than I ever have just because that's I also enjoy that, too. You know, on a powder day I don't want to bring my cameras. Right. The phone will be just fine.

Yeah. I love the days we don't bring cameras.

I know. It's great. It's a lot of work. A lot of stress. Yeah. I think all that being said, it's not don't buy a camera. You know, if you do want to do that get into it and create good content we fully support that. It just takes a lot of learning to do it correctly.

Yeah, I think if you go into it not with like a burning desire to master that piece of equipment, you're probably going into it wrong. Like you're not going to squeeze as much out of that as No. As much juice and like so like literally if you're buying this camera and you don't want to become a nerd of that camera, like Yeah. You probably like you said, just Yeah, just the phone.

Yeah, you have to be obsessed. Like I remember I got my first camera and my boss didn't tell me at the time that auto was an option. It was always on M. So it made me figure out how to use it and I did. And I just shot everything. You know, I shot my car at the time, my dog, Yeah. Anything. Anything and everything just cuz I was obsessed with it. Nights on YouTube watching tutorials and it fades a little bit, but there's still events like this where I just want to shoot everything that's going on.

Yeah, I was telling Tristin Ironi on the way here. I'm like, dude, there's no excuse now. Like I literally have had some issues and I'm not a camera guy at all. Like you've seen our podcast compared to your guys' stuff. Like we just put the cameras on and hit record and hope and pray that red dot keeps blinking and that screen does not turn off. And as long as that stays, then we're good. But I literally use and abuse ChatGPT like two nights ago. Like Totally. Issues with focus on this thing and I was just detailing everything and like telling it to tell me Yeah. Exactly what I need to do with this exact camera.

And we tweak something and it wouldn't do it and then it give me a couple things to try and I try one and it would work and then okay, so we've narrowed it down to it's this, this or this.

For sure. I think if you've got time There's some crazy tools out there available now. Yeah, if you've got time and you just got some curiosity yeah. Up there, you can figure out pretty much most anything, you know.

I used to say YouTube university for learning anything. Now it's like ChatGPT uni.

Yeah, for sure. You can learn anything about anything. Go to YouTube. Don't go to the DMs of guys like us cuz we love to talk about cameras, but it's so hard to like tell someone how to like set it up correctly and like start with the YouTube and then like ask us questions cuz it's like I've had quite a few buddies just even reach out. I'm like, bro start with the 101 and then come back.

Yeah, that's my favorite comment is what camera do you use? Your camera takes amazing quality. It's like, well, here's my camera. Have fun.

Yeah. Put it on green mode. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Okay, so we just talked about kind of some kind of what we don't we don't like, in content creation. Who's doing it well? So, from your guys' perspective, who's out and I'm not saying this doesn't have to be like they're producing just high quality stuff, but just content in general in our space in our industry who would you say is doing a really good job of capturing attention with content? Is snowmobile specifically? Yeah. We'll start with snowmobiles and then if we want to sprinkle you know, oh this dude in this industry is just killing it.

Yeah, I mean these guys at 509 is kind of like the leaders in putting out content, right? I mean nobody's been doing it for as long as they have and you guys have just you keep putting out good stuff. You're persistent with it. So, it's great. Caleb Kesterke what he's been doing has been great for the industry as well. What he does is it can cause burnout so fast, but he just keeps doing it. And then obviously Muskoka is just yeah. Run and gun, just lifestyle stuff. Raw. It's great. So

You guys get a good plug in your podcast though.

Yeah. You know. I wouldn't Yeah. I'll just leave it at that.

My answer would be identical to that, honestly. Maybe not so much on the 509 side of things. Yes, I think what we do is great. I think like Caleb is obviously doing the best. Like he's crushing it. The films, the uploads, all that stuff is super awesome. And then yeah, the Muskoka thing is like so awesome. Gives people something to watch every single day. There's always something about sledding and it's great stuff. It really is. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with the Muskoka thing. We just talked about that in our podcast that he's making something incredibly relatable. Relatable for people who actually can't relate, if that makes sense. People that don't have the opportunity to go west. They kind of get a full idea of what a day in the life in the mountains is like. Which is cool. And then Caleb, of course. And then honestly, the guy on the end here, Ironi, his color, oh, I'm so jealous of his color correction on stuff. So crispy. I call him out on it pretty frequently. And not just video, photo, too. It's like absolute lethal weapon. He's so good.

He's funny though, you know, that. Like I've been giving him crap the last few days cuz he's just popping out I'm like, “Hey, should I throw that HDR filter on this?” Or

Yeah, I've always drawn inspiration to good color and I think when I watch stuff on Instagram, that's what draws me in. So, that's you try to be a chameleon and light all that stuff.

So, chameleon. We should look that up. What?

Riff on that or Headstrong Films. Yeah. His color, insane. Have you watched his stuff?

No.

He's got all those slow mo clips that go viral like Taka doing the What the heck? The Superman flips and everything. It's like ultra slow mo, super tight, so crisp. He shot a lot like Jackson Strong stuff, a lot of Monster projects.

He did the one where the guy was like flipping through the fire, I think. You've probably seen that clip.

His stuff worth looking up. It's a next level.

Any hunters here?

Grew up hunting, but I don't know.

Watched I'm curious what your guys's take is. Maybe you've never seen. Have you seen Gritty Films?

Yeah, a little bit, yep.

Brian Call. He really specializes in like cinematic hunting tales, like adventures. My eyes tell me that this is incredible stuff. I'm curious like what if you guys if any of you have seen what you're cuz so many people just pull their phone out and they're vlogging while hunting and it's cool content cuz, you know, the chase of that stuff is really cool, but his cinematic work is

As far as like what we consume outside of this stuff or in general? Yeah. He's talking about hunting in general or like what we consume? What's the What's the question?

If you had seen any of Gritty's films.

I have, yeah. Yeah. It's not action, you know, there's not like a lot of action fast moving stuff. So, it's a different style of film. It's more of like a story, you know, backcountry

Yeah, I've seen that. That's how I assemble my stuff is I don't have I don't have the maybe the coolest trick in the content or the gnarly staff lead, but if you can capture it in good light and capture the details and put good color to it, it's yeah, that's a big thing. But yeah, there's a lot of inspiration to I don't draw inspiration from the sled industry. I pull it from everywhere else, but the sled industry, to be honest with you.

Okay, so for those of us who are here and listening to this part of the episode, what type of content should we be creating or striving to create?

I wouldn't I don't consider myself a content creator cuz I don't make YouTube videos or upload on a frequency.

Well, you create content. Maybe you're not a publish like a publisher of stuff, right?

Like I'm just like when I think of content creator, I think of a YouTuber and stuff like that.

User generated content type person. Yeah, I don't know. I Your storytelling's great. Like that Sam Peterson piece you did and everything. That's where you thrive for sure is a storytelling and compelling stories. You do a fantastic job.

But thank you. Yeah, what was the question again? Sorry.

The question was what for those who are listening, what type of content should they be creating? Should they just be, you know,

Do whatever Really, whatever makes you happy, whatever makes you want to keep doing it. The industry needs more people to create and more content. So, whatever keeps you going is go for it, man. For me, that's photos. You know, I don't really I couldn't care less really about video as much as that surprises people, but I'm a photo guy. So, that's what keeps me going and that's how I do it.

I think that plays right into what our topic a couple weeks ago on the podcast was just standing out from the rest. And it's really just kind of contradicting what we talked about earlier. If that's with your cell phone, that's Muskoka films a lot with his cell phone. But he's found this way to tell a story every single day and make it interesting and engaging. It's just you carving out a new little niche and seeing if you can find something that's been missing. And if you got a good story behind it, people will be interested.

I like to tie it back to a couple things. Well, three things. For me, if you're not making me laugh or put a smile on my face, if you're not teaching me something new or interesting that I didn't know before, or if you didn't make me feel some sort of way, it's pretty It's just pretty useless scroll content. If you can

It's filler content, yeah.

If you can bang on one of those, like just strike one of those three, I think you're if that's your starting point, that's a very good starting point. If your starting point is all the time, I'm going to go hit this re-entry, you know, this bowtie. If that's your starting point all the time, you need to pull your stuff out of the equation and get some self-awareness. Like do you like to just watch a feed full of that? Or do you like it when you see a talking head and, you know, someone's telling you about something, you know, whatever that is.

I think when starting to create content, if it's something new to you, you have to do it for yourself and not just doing it to try to be a part of something because you can get so caught up in trying to fit into a lane or where there's an opening where you like you don't appreciate it. Like, you know, find what makes you happy and then find a need in the industry and if you fit in there or you can pivot a little bit, I think that's great. But you got to like you got to love it for yourself at the start because it's going to take you a while to make money doing this.

Yeah, yeah. Or getting free stuff. Like views, you know.

Yeah. All that. So, it just depends on what you want and what your goal is and chase that first and then worry about where it's going after that, I think.

Yeah. I part of I wrote down three things from you guys's podcast. We were kind of talking about the content creating. You guys said You guys mentioned three things. Give it some time. Because like you said, you get an idea and you go to that company and you tell them what you're going to do. It's rarely showing you showing them what you have done. Yeah, totally. And so it's like go do go create go do stuff. Then give it some time. Yeah. And then start having those conversations. I really appreciated that.

Yeah. Seen so many here's what I want to do and then it just fizzles out, disappears. I'd rather see here's what I have done. So, cool. All right, we know you're you chase after your dreams. You actually execute on your ideas. That's awesome. Let's figure out who you are. Let's keep watching you and, you know, keep you as a contact in our book, for sure.

Yeah. There's a lot you can learn very quickly about creating stuff in the backcountry or even on the trails. Like you can think of the idea pretty easy sitting in your living room, but when you have to go out there and chase it, it stuff gets hard. Yeah. We just did that the other day. We did a how to find snow video.

Dude, those have been sick videos. Those with Ross?

No, sorry. We just did a on the 509 channel a video on like Yeah. On the 509 Action Films YouTube channel. Yeah. We did a video on like how to find snow cuz it's been so bad. And we the idea we're like, this will be easy. And then we got out there and we struggled to get to the snow. And we're like, are we not going to be able to make this video? But we pulled it together. But yeah, it was one of those things where we thought this would be an easy video. And then halfway through the day we're like, this is not an easy video. But it all worked out. But yeah, that's just executing on ideas is so difficult.

Yeah. Having a finished product is something to feel proud about. Like the you know the me a lot of times people start me. Can I get a free helmet? You know hook me up how what does it take to get a free wrap? Like give me a free wrap. You know I'll post a video I'll post a videos. You know like all that stuff that stuff happens all the time right? And you want to be nice you want to be a nice guy. But you're also like you're also have a business to run. Like this is not just me having a fun day. Like why would I give you a like you posted three times in the last year not one of them has a sled build in it.

Yeah, like Yeah, if you want free stuff or cheaper stuff or discounts you have to solve a problem or provide a solution to whoever you're asking.

Yeah, 100% Those people come and go all the time though.

They'll always be around.

Yeah, they will. Yeah, they fade out but yeah if you want a free wrap from Deviant, well you need some assets to show for it to send to you guys to use and promote. So that's people are wondering how to do that's how you do it.

Yeah, I've got I've got a like a textbook perfect response I guess to my own question. Yeah. I don't know if you guys saw this video we had a customer create a rap video. Oh yeah. About our about one of our like they bought a wrap customized about it and then created a rap video and like it's actually like a sick verse like it's sick. We didn't know he was doing it. Like we just got tagged one day. Yeah. And then we were like what the heck what's going on here?

And that started our conversation with Charlie to become more involved with you know ambassadorship and that took a lot of work it took weeks you know it took weeks of video took we it took weeks of like just writing out and recording like he went into a studio and recorded it. Oh wow.

Really? Yeah. Sick. Yeah.

And that right there is like a perfect example of he showed us that the value that he can bring. Yeah. Like we've shot emails out with that video like we've been able to use it a lot and he wasn't even ambassador yet.

So Yeah, on the commercial side of that if you're if you're wanting to work with brands and you don't have anything to show them for the work that you want to start doing for them you have to do spec shoots and that takes money out of your pocket right? If you want to shoot for Polaris snowmobiles commercially you need to have a portfolio of high quality professional photos and that takes money to go out and do that.

So whether whatever brand you want to work for you need to have something to show them a portfolio and that comes from me a spec shoot you know buy a product and shoot it and so that you have something to show somebody before you actually get the work. You won't get the work and then the portfolio it's the other way around you need the portfolio to get the work. Yeah.

Yeah, you can talk the talk all you want but then if you're Yeah. If you show up with like a Canon T3i Yeah.

If you want to shoot X Games or snowmobiles you need to go to your local freestyle show or something and just sit in the grandstands and shoot it. It's something's better than nothing.

So I want to talk are you guys okay to move on to a new topic real quick?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I want to talk sled premieres, sled films. Yeah. This year we've kind of seen like the revival of these and I want to know honest takes opinions and I want to know what you guys' thoughts are on like how do we how does the industry actually pull off the sustainability of not just having this be a one like a one hit or quit or right like but how do how can we you know build out the sustainability of these premieres?

I got a lot of thoughts on this. I did five of them film premieres and we were making them at 509 and they were awesome. It was our favorite event of the year outside of like a Hay Days for example. It was very grassroots. It was the camaraderie that we all enjoyed all these events. But it was kind of still right when social media was starting to become bigger and people were still not seeing stuff as frequently as they do all winter long. And now stuff you know we're seeing it constantly. Caleb did a very good job on saving a lot of footage. I know he has so much content he posts every single day.

I don't know how he had time to save a lot of content. But I think trying to kind of gatekeep some of that content throughout the season is really big. Maybe he can tease with behind the scenes stuff but we have to be active on social to keep this all relevant the same time but it's finding that balance of what we're showing them. And I think just building that hype and making sure that we have something in our back pocket all of these athletes involved that nobody knows about. And if that rumor gets out year after year hey there's stuff we haven't seen from these guys yet. It's going to be in the film. We learned that last year.

They're doing it again. There's got to be that hype and excitement built around it for it to succeed continuously.

Yeah. Totally agree with what David said there so I won't hit on that part but as far as like hosting the film premieres I'm curious on what the people think and like cuz you know Missoula is basically the only thing I have to reference back to Caleb's event and so many people traveled for that. But that was the first one in a long time so it was super big and super hyped up.

I'm wondering if like are they willing to do that each year like hey we're taking the film premiere trip or does it need to be like a film tour where it goes you know west south you know Midwest East Coast that kind of thing and maybe you have four venues across the country premiering the same thing and then after that it gets posted something like that cuz you know a lot of people there's a lot of viewers out there that want to watch it you know?

I mean we see Resume has 100,000 views after being out on YouTube so like think of all the people that were in Canada to watch that one too like it took off even more after that so how many more people out there can we get to attend film premieres if we get it close enough to them or big enough for them to travel to? Yeah.

Tour for sure. You got to go on tour.

I have a lot of commentary around that. So I think my personal opinion is I love the tour idea. My biggest gripe with all of the premieres this last year was that they were all siloed. Like so and so has his premiere and he has his premiere and he has his premiere and they're all over. Yeah. I'm mostly upset because I couldn't go to Progression and I was at Edmonton at a snowmobile show. And so it got me thinking I'm like why can't we just freaking get everyone on the same page?

Let's pick four five snowmobile trade shows because this is such a weird industry where there's so many like from Hay Days to like November dude there's like almost a snowmobile trade show every weekend. Like why can't we just identify like four or five of them? You the thing is to get your video in the pre the tour premiere and then you piggyback off the trade shows. Yeah. You know like SnoWest they do Friday Saturday shows. Mhm. So they're bringing people already to the show and why doesn't why can't we have the video premieres be like the Saturday night feature? Yeah. You know like that's I that's where I'm at.

I got to have a say on that.

Go ahead, Tristan.

I think you if you do that you'll run into hosting issues. You can't do it at Hay Days because it has to be on a projector screen it can't be on an LED screen like what we're out there you know. Yeah. That would really upset Tristin Ironi if you play his AK footage on a light bulb screen yeah. So it's got to be housed indoors it's got to have enough seating for you know we saw 700 people in Missoula so you know where are those people going to stay? Are they willing to go to that event for just that kind of thing? You know it's it takes a unique space to host a true premiere I think.

You know you can't just set up a few you know folding chairs outside of Hay Days kind of thing. Not saying that's like what you want to do but it takes like a unique space to host a true premiere. So not saying it's not doable but it would be

Yeah.

You know that would be a task.

Outdoor would be hard. I mean most of the shows are indoors actually but I think there's still that men that mentality is coming back now of if you build it they will come. Yeah. I mean Caleb built it and they showed up. In hundreds almost a thousand people. And when we used to do them at a casino and it would be a weekend event for everybody. People get hotel room for two nights you know they'd be hanging out gambling in the casino whatever and then there was a event space there and we'd pack it thousand 1200 people and it was a reoccurring yearly event which is on their calendars.

And I think if you continue to build that hype you could take it to a Minneapolis somewhere, find a theater, get to have the great brands back in here supporting you, too. Like having the Polaris trailer outside of the theater in Missoula. So sick. The whole semi parked out front, giant billboard, like, “Hey, sledders are in town. Come on in, you got to check this out.” And getting a good support team behind it, I think you could go on tour outside of snow shows. You could still piggyback off of snow shows at just a smaller scale. Maybe these other guys haven't had time because of snow show tour to go check this out.

Their only time is a family to go to a snowmobile event, but I think you could amplify it to that theater level with the correct partners and everybody backing it and continue to drive that hype.

Yeah. Hold the bass. It did it last time. How about now? Check, check. Oh my gosh. All day yesterday, the bass would wig out the sound bar. Wow, that was scary.

What was I going to say now? Oh, instead of I'm not going to talk about the physical premiere itself, but the film itself needs support from it needs support from OEMs. They need to be bought in, right? These cost We were talking last time and he was he was just asking about these little, you know, when I did Sam's video, we talked about that cost and like these films cost 100,000 plus if you want to do it right. To do it right, to premiere it, to get the locations and the athletes and all that stuff. So to expect us to front that charge, which is what's expected currently, that's why there's no film premieres, you know?

You need Polaris on board and they were great with Caleb's and you know, you need Ski-Doo and Arctic Cat and all these guys and aftermarket companies, 509, Klim and Backwoods is doing great, too, but you need it takes everybody, takes a village and everybody needs to come together and play on the same team and I think if that happens, then film premieres that standard will go up and we can keep it sustainable. So that's what needs to happen.

We need a truck sponsor.

Yeah, we need Ford.

Something, you know? Peo- people don't understand that, you know, if we want to go if you want to be a sled filmer, you don't need the newest sled. I'm not saying that, but your sled does call it $18,000 average and a Pelican full of cameras is 30 grand and hotels and food and your time. It's not cheap. So.

And investors? Possibly you.

And it's super hard and also super risky. It's not an easy job. Like Yeah. It's not just snowmobiling like

Oh, I'm glad you brought this up.

Professional athletes. Doing my job, it is not an easy thing to do this. So Trap and I were joking about hazard pay the other day. Yeah.

Yeah, we need some hazard pay up here. I I was excited to film Sam's last year, but I was also very scared to film Sam's cuz if you watch Sam Peterson, Keith and those guys ride, they just push each other, for lack of better terms, and I'm like, this is what I'm going to get put into. They pack fuel and they ride from sunup to sundown in the gnarliest drainage and they're just laughing the whole time and think it's funny. So here I am. Seriously, and I'm like, I'm scared and I'm like, but I'm going to do it and I have to do it and I have to get to where they need to be if I have to walk by walk. But yeah, people don't think of that, either.

It's gnarly. I can't imagine what it's like to go film Caleb or something like that, either. It's crazy. It's scary. It's Yeah,

It is scary and I'm glad you guys said it's scary cuz I don't want to feel like I'm you know, wussing out, but it's like there's times I get into a spot and I'm like, what am I doing with my life? Yeah. There's core memories burned in my head of like where I am truly scared. And I like I'm pretty comfortable on a sled. But there's times where I'm like, I'm actually scared right now. Yeah.

When you can hear your heartbeat in your head, like do That's where you know the adrenaline is spiked.

We sunk Jack Sarama's sled in a waterfall 3 years ago. Were you there for That was a Black Cats film trip. Yeah. And we At Arctic Cat, we did a deal with Boondock Nation. We wanted to partner up with them on three episodes and that was one of them. We went and rode McCall with the Black Cats and Cody Monroe was like, “Well, I'll be your guide.” And it started off with him asking Dave McClure what how good the riders are in your group and I overheard Dave say like an A or a B plus and I looked at myself and I'm like, he can't be talking about me. And we went riding in the jungle up a waterfall and Jack sunk his sled in 20 ft of water.

We had to have call a helicopter to get out. So yeah, it's you find yourself in situations like that more than I would like to admit. But it's fun. Yeah.

So do you guys How do I ask this? How do I say this? When you guys spend all this time on a premiere, is there any anxiety built up around cuz with that video a lot goes into that video. And then you post it and then it's done. Mhm. And it may you hope that it hits. But I've seen some premieres that didn't quite hit. You know, maybe a couple thousand views and I think everyone involved would have hoped that there would be a lot more. Do you guys get nervous at You know, with this it's not like you're just you can just delete it and re-upload a different version of a phone and then do another one the next day, right? Like

Every single time. And I think talking to these guys, we all think the same thing. We post and we go, “That sucks. We suck.” Yeah. We're our own worst critics, which is great because that pushes you to get continuously better. But that's my horrible mindset every time I hit post.

Yeah, and I don't ever go into posting something on Instagram specifically with the expectation that it's going to blow up, you know, cuz they don't. There's going to be people that enjoy it and that pumps your ego up. Whatever you do with that is whatever, but at Hay Days per se, we let these films go and premiere and it's great because you get the in-person and feedback right away and people are coming up to you saying that's great, that made me feel something, whereas Instagram doesn't relay that sense of gratification to you.

So like at Hay Days this year, I had you guys came up and you're like, “That was awesome, you know, great color where I was putting that out and it maybe I didn't film it the way I wanted to and it didn't come together the way I wanted it to, but they don't know that. So they thought it was great. So

That's a good point. Like the viewer doesn't know what went into it, what went wrong, what went right. As long as the story flows and then it still hits and they feel something, they might think it's the coolest thing ever. Yeah.

So the in-person gratification is far better. If I could delete my Instagram tomorrow, I would.

100%.

Well, gentlemen, we're making great time. Nothing shut off. We're going to transition real quick. I'm going to just see what I can do here. Take a quick little film. It looks pretty sweet out there right now. So we are here, guys and gals. We're on the Sledder Cast podcast. We are zipped in to our little 10 by 10 because there is a party going on outside, but we're here at X Games and just taking a little breather here on the real episode. We're around third base, I think, about to head home.

Yeah. We're getting ready for freestyle snowmobiling.

We're getting ready for freestyle at the X Games for the first time in 6 years in like an hour-ish. We got a little practice sesh and then it's full on, right?

Warm up. Warm up. Warm up and then Go time.

There's going to be some gold medals out there and

Live on ESPN.

Which that's a big deal because when's the when's the last time it's we've been live on ESPN?

At least 6 years.

6 years. Big deal for snowmobiles. Okay, we'll get back to it.

I had a list of lightning round questions. I don't know if you guys saw that. I think I may have added them afterwards cuz I'm like, I don't know if I want these guys to see these questions. I don't remember them, so they're fine. Great. That's how I like it. Okay. Who's your favorite snowmobiler

Oh, yeah, good.

Yeah, let's Answer, answer, answer. Let's work back to me. Let's work back to me.

Okay. Who is your favorite snowmobiler to film and why? Oh, man. And if you need a pass real quick, maybe we'll let you pass and then go, but we're going to come back to you. Don't worry about that.

Yeah, there's so many. I recently went and filmed with Blaine Matthews and I've never filmed with him before and maybe I say this because everybody else I've filmed with I've filmed with a lot and Blaine he knew what to do cuz he's filmed with these guys a lot, but his style, he just like racy, he just hits pillows and pops over them and knows what the camera wants. That was a lot of fun. I've never shot anybody that kind of jumps around like that. Everybody else is just like a hardcore speed bowtie kind of guy, but Blaine was had some style to it.

So I would say Blaine and then I filmed with Dave McClure a lot and he is just like I don't have to tell him what to do because we'll get into a zone that's untouched and he'll he knows not to tear it up. He knows to look for light pockets. He knows I want it back-lit. So Dave's another one. He just It's not work when we go and film. We're both on the same page.

That's awesome.

Yeah. I think we get to pick, too. We're going to pick two.

Yep.

Okay. Caleb Kesterke because what he can do on a snowmobile blows my mind every single time. I've ridden with him multiple times and every time it can be something new and groundbreaking. And then number two would be Jay Mentaberry because he's so precise and dialed and knows exactly what he's doing every single time and it always works. I and I know David's about to say the same thing.

I was going to say something really I'll give a more broad answer then.

You got more?

Nope, that's right.

Caleb because yeah, I never know what he's going to do. He looks at terrain unlike anybody else. He's got like a different filter on his eyeballs or something or what? Five years of filming with him where I still pull into his zone and I look at him and go, “What do you want to do in here?” And he'll point out something that I went I didn't think that was an option. And usually you spend enough time with the guys you kind of figure out what they naturally migrate towards. Yeah. Caleb I just see like something that looks unrideable. I'm like, “He wants to go there but I don't know how he's going to get there.” Which is awesome.

But then I was going to say Jay to be honest for the love of our whole team, anybody that's been on our pro team for 5 to 10 years now, they're all so good at understanding the shot. They've been doing it for so long. Yeah. That they pretty if say if it's a really high up hallway to go hit a drop or something, they pretty much find it right away. Yeah. They take a couple mental notes looking at where I am or where set up and they look up there. They go climbing up the hill and they pop out right where they're supposed to be. Exactly. So that's super cool. Just those guys are dialed. They're in it for this long for a reason.

Yeah. Okay. What's the most overrated piece of content?

Bowtie clips and like we said earlier, I post them too. I just posted one of Sam at like 400 frames a second. They're still cool, yeah, but I scroll past them all the time just cuz everybody posts them so. I'm also a sucker for doing it but yeah, pretty overrated.

I don't really have a good answer for this. I mean I don't disagree with Tristan but yeah, I guess I'll just I'll double back off of him. I think that's getting like pretty worn out. We can all do them. I mean I can I won't show you the ones that I didn't land but majority of mountain sledders can figure out how to do them and so it's kind of lost its luster, per se.

Well, there's a reason we all kind of hang out, huh? Yeah.

I'm going to amplify the bowtie answer a little bit or build on it.

We're breaking. I know. Wow. I'm keeping my distance here. You guys are breaking a lot of hearts right now, okay?

They can look cool. They can look cool. With no contrast. I see clips with somebody doing something on the hillside and it's a tight to medium shot. You can't see a single tree. You have no idea how steep it is. There's no definition in it. And all it is just spin around and carry on. It's just a solid white shot with a snowmobile in the middle.

So if we could give you tips on how to film a better bowtie

There we go. I have a monthly class.

No, I'll give you a freebie here. Shoot it from the side or something. Put some light to it. Backlight it. Some days are socked in. Do them in the trees, whatever but yeah, give it some depth. Let us understand how steep it is or if you know, whatever it is but I don't just want to see the bottom of the track and skis and snow dust. So.

There you go. Amen, brother. Okay. We'll try to give you different answers whatever the next question is. If you could delete one

If you could delete one of your snowmobile films, premiere-type videos. Now I'm not talking about like a little Instagram reel, okay? But if you could delete one of them, wipe it off the face of the earth, which one would it be?

Something we've created.

Created, yeah. You've been a part of.

Has to be a film or what's the parameters here?

Like a long form film, yeah. We'll go with that, yeah. 5 minutes plus, something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Delete it because we want to redo it or delete it cuz we don't want it on the internet anymore. I mean I won't post a long form video unless I want it to be out there for people to see. I'm proud of them all. They're not all bangers but I'm I posted it for a reason so. But if I could redo one

Okay. I'll give you that.

If I could delete it for the purpose of redoing it, it would be the Alaska video I did. I should have just done it better but everything's hindsight, right? That's where experience comes in and that's why it's so important.

People some reference, you're talking about was it 2 years ago?

Yeah, 2 years ago. Connor and the gang. We just randomly I got a call from my friends at the Black Cats and they're like, “We're going up to Alaska and we're driving and we got an extra sled. Do you want to go?” And I said, “Yep, I'll be there tomorrow.” So I just did a run and gun film of it. We didn't plan anything and that's why I would want to redo it cuz I'd want to go up there with a plan. So but live and you learn, right?

Connor does a backflip out of the ice cave, right?

Yeah. that one. Yeah, crazy. Riding across glaciers and sinking sleds so nuts. But yeah, just yeah, I would delete it just cuz I'd want to redo it but I think every long form video I put out on proud enough of so.

There's definitely some clips I'd want deleted out of some videos.

I feel like there's quite a few with my goggles on backwards and I'm sweating that I would want gone but I guess as far as like long format videos, I've done a lot with Dan Adams in the past few years on the Next Level channel and I think I could do a lot better going back after what I've learned and it's not one specific video that I like I'm like, “Oh my gosh, that's terrible.” but you just learn so much each year that you know you could go back to what you've already done and redo it better so I guess that would be the answer is just redoing some of the old stuff I did right when I first started cuz you can clearly tell like, I've learned a lot since those days.

But that's the beauty in it too is those are still up so we can go back and watch them and we're like we have gotten better. Yeah. You have to create and publish those else you're not going to you're not going to be in the position later on to be able to look back and say, “Oh man, I was I sucked back then. I'm way better now.”

Yeah, feedback's the most important part in anybody that is seeking performance or whatever so.

Yeah. I do agree with them as well.

Okay. You're the advocate here.

On a personal level, if there's a video I could delete off the face of the earth, a few years ago for Black Friday, there's about a 15-minute video of the alter ego known as Disco, or Discount Dave. Discount Dave was a deranged hillbilly that only comes out after about five Twisted Teas. And Discount Dave was a salesman for Black Friday. And although it got some laughs, it still pains me when people bring it up. Yeah. It was interesting day in the office, that's for sure.

And that baby still It lives out there.

She's still alive. To be honest, I may have switched it to unlisted a few months ago. Have to have a link from somebody. I'll send it to you. Hit me up.

There we go. We'll put it we'll drop it in the comments.

Yeah, that was that's a personal shame but

Yeah, nice. It was fun, actually. Do it for the bit. Yeah.

Well, great. Guys, you guys got some work and some prep work to go do. I think we're right. I mean we're we almost did this to the T. Yeah. I said 60 minutes. Yeah. You guys gave me 60 minutes. Perfect. That goes fine by you, right? I know, right? By the way, Tristin Ironi, first timer here.

Yeah, first podcast ever.

Let me give you a handshake here. That's a There you go. There we go. Yeah, well done. You sounded seasoned.

My robot voice. We should put back on for the outro.

I don't I probably don't even push one of those buttons and it'll do something but yeah. But anyways, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in. Appreciate you guys seriously. It's this would take so much work to try and get you guys I guess the price you paid to get a podcast with the three of you. There we go. We'll put it that way. Bye.

It's cool. This is the kind of content that I would want to watch as a consumer, I think. So.

Yeah. Pleasure's ours.

Yeah, thank you guys. And thank you for everything you do for the sled industry. You do a great job.

Appreciate it. Yeah.

Yeah, what do you what let's ask him a question. Yeah, what do you want to see out of us as quote unquote content creators and photographers and videographers? Like what are you looking for?

Yeah. Cuz you look at it from a completely different perspective. From our conversation last night it sounded like

Yeah, I'm a big like I want to know people I want to know what they do outside of snowmobiling. Okay. Like I don't just want to

We got you.

You got it? Okay, great, yeah. I want to know I want I go back to YETI Presents videos, right? Like that type of stuff that has nothing to do with the doggone YETI. Like with the product for the most part. Yeah. But it's just cool and they're like 15 minutes. It's not like an hour long. They're short and sweet. But it puts the brand like up on a pedestal. It gives you some variety to watch and so I would say I got to love the stuff that I mean the stuff that you guys are creating here. Like this stuff is needed like in our catalog of content as a brand that we want to create, this is a slice of that pie.

But I think when it's the whole pie, that's when it you get boring, right? And so getting got getting helmets off Yeah. Guys who are we talking about? Who would be interesting?

You're saying Yeah. Doggone pilot

Yeah, he's a pilot. That was pretty crazy, huh? I want Keaton. I want to see more videos of you behind the cockpit, man. Like where are you going today for lunch, you know? You're on a commercial flight and Keaton comes over to give you the pre-landing thing. That would be funny. Yeah. This guy just This guy beat me in a film premiere. Yeah. He can backflip. Yeah, like tell that story. You know, like that's the kind of stuff we've got some ideas that we want to do eventually and a lot of it involves working with customers and telling unique customer stories. Takes work cuz you got to find Yeah.

The uniqueness in customers, but and they have a cool story to tell, but Yeah. That's kind of my That's my response.

How much is that? Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so

Okay. There we go. Okay, we'll see you guys back to work. Appreciate you. Thanks, guys.

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.