Rob Kincaid: The 5-Year Tribute

It was April 3rd, 2020. A bluebird day near Victor, Idaho. Fresh snow, stable skies, the kind of spring day we sledders dream about. Snowmobilers and friends were doing what they loved, carving through spring pow, exploring the backcountry and chasing adrenaline like they always had. In a moment that would shake the entire snowmobiling world, one of those riders, Rob Kincaid, triggered an avalanche that would end up taking his life.

The slide was nearly 2 feet deep, over 500 feet wide, and it ran more than 1,500 feet down the slope. Rob was fully buried under 4 feet of snow. Despite immediate rescue efforts from his friends, it was too late. That day marked the end of one era, but the beginning of a legacy.

Rob Kincaid wasn't just a pro rider. He was a husband, a father, a friend and a legend in every sense of the word. His energy, his grit, his passion for the outdoors. Rob left a mark on the backcountry community that time just can't erase.

In this special tribute episode we sit down with Rob's son, Riley Kincaid, one of Rob's best friends and riding partner in crime, Dave McClure, and Ben White, previously the creative director at Arctic Cat, who spent a lot of time in the hills filming Rob and Dave. We're going to go deep into the stories that defined Rob's life. The wild rides, the hilarious moments, the quiet acts of kindness, parts of Rob that most of us just never got to see. This is more than a podcast episode. This is the five-year tribute to Rob Kincaid.

[Tribute montage with music]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Sledder Cast podcast. This is actually the last recording of season 2, but it won't be the last episode, because we're going to pump this out with a quick turnaround and then we'll have one more that we've already recorded. This is my first time here. This is not your guys' first time here, but can you tell us where we're at?

We're at my buddy's, Project Base Camp, Stephen Clark's place. He was nice enough to let us come here and film this, so it's a sweet facility.

Stephen's going to correct you on that. It's Teton Basecamp, just to be clear. You said Project Base Camp, and I don't want you to get in trouble.

Cam, do we need to cut that and start over? I'm like, maybe that's the nickname, just the locals.

What is Project Base Camp? I think that's a movie.

It was from the video game you were playing last night, probably. That's why I brought you.

I'm here, I'm the fact checker. That's all I can contribute.

Heck yeah.

So Stephen was nice enough to let us take over. We had some deadlines we had to play in between, with the hill climb at Jackson Hole and then guests here at the place, but we found one night and we were able to make it happen.

So why don't we start down here with Ben. Maybe you guys can just give a quick brief. I think most everyone knows who you are, but maybe not without the helmet on, right?

So yeah, I'm Ben White. I used to be the creative director at Arctic Cat, and I'm probably most known for helping manage the Black Cats. That's kind of how I got roped up with these hooligans here for the past, what, four or five years, probably more than that. It seems like it's been one year, but time flies. That's kind of my history.

So you're like the head honcho of the Black Cat department.

I was at one point, yeah. I've moved on since, but I'm still obviously very close with the team, and snowmobiling has become a huge part of my life. It's hard to let people go that are so close to you, that you spend so much time with and you've been through so much with. I'd like to say I'm probably an honorary member of the Black Cat team. Self-declared, for sure. But yeah, that's kind of how it started.

Love it. So did you and Tristin work together? And by the way, you may notice our video work is going to be much better on this episode. We've got a professional back there, Ironi Media, making sure. Shout out. He's monitoring back and forth, he's got his monitor going and everything, and every time he walks past my camera he's like, this is just poverty right here. But did you guys work together at the same time, and spend a lot of time together?

Tristin and I worked together on the same team for, shoot, how many years, Tristin? Three years, four years? Honestly, I'm really bad with time, man. Like I said, it all just flies by. We've done so much together. Tristin was on my team. We managed more than just the Arctic Cat brand together. We managed the whole suite of Textron businesses at the time, so it was busy. It was crazy. It was quite a run. That's why I think the time just kind of flew by. There was never a time where we weren't out doing something for a brand. But it was a lot of fun. We've done a lot of good stuff together.

Cool. All right, well, next up, who we got here?

Well, more on Ben. When you reached out to me, I originally wanted Rob and I's mechanic, Riley's mechanic, Jason Nethercott, to come, and I think he's out trucking right now and couldn't make it. So I was chatting with Ben last night, literally, and we've shared so many experiences with Rob. We were talking about this and we just went down memory lane, telling stories, and we were laughing for like 30 minutes. And I was like, yeah, he'll be a great addition if Jason can't be here.

Yeah, that's awesome.

But for me, I'm Dave McClure. I've been a sponsored Arctic Cat rider since '07. Rob and I traveled the world snowmobiling, and life's not the same for me without Rob. But it's cool that I can do some of this stuff with Riley.

Awesome. And just an interesting fact about Dave, we actually played against each other in baseball and football back in the glory days. Madison High School versus Skyline in Idaho Falls. We didn't hate each other, but we didn't like each other. And now we can be homies. Skyline had some mean faces behind those face masks over there. You just wanted to stay away from those guys.

It's been fun though. Now that we're not competing against each other, we can just reminisce on those good times, because sports were huge for us back in the day.

Back then I didn't even know, did you snowmobile much in high school? It gets hard to do when you're doing all those sports.

Yeah, I did. I remember my football coach was always making fun of me in the weight room. He's like, yeah, that thumb of yours is sure getting strong, you can sure start a snowmobile good. And I'm like, coach, you have no idea. I'm dripping wet trying to ride these snowmobiles. So yeah, I did ride. I had a plan when I was in high school. I was like, as soon as I can afford it and as soon as I'm done with college, I'm going to start racing. But first I had to do all the sports.

Perfect. Okay, next up down the line.

I'm Riley Kincaid. I ride for Arctic Cat on the Black Cats backcountry team, and I race on the hill climb circuit for Arctic Cat.

Nice. And obviously Rob's son. Now walk me through the siblings in your family.

So just me and my sister. She's three years older than me, so I'm the youngest.

You're the baby. And I don't even know how old you are. I'll kind of guess.

24.

24, there we go.

What's funny too is when I first started hanging out with Rob, how old would he have been? He was a young little guy, riding the wheels off of a 120 till it ran out of gas. He was just a punk kid.

Yeah, I was super tiny. I couldn't even stand up on a 120. I was just sitting down the whole time.

The first time you looked at this guy right here and you understood, this is Dave, my dad's friend, what was your first impression of Dave?

I always thought he was crazy on a snowmobile, because my dad would tell me about how Dave did this big jump, and I just thought he was a crazy man. Just a crazy dude.

Awesome. Still is?

Not so much.

We're going to spend most of this episode on this. We're going to publish this on April 3rd, which would be five years to the date of Rob's passing, and we're calling this the five-year tribute, Rob's legacy. We're going to spend the rest of this time talking about funny stories, the legacy that he left behind, the legacy that we get to experience now. And we're not going to spend much time at all talking about the day. There are documents you can go out and read if you want to learn more about that. We're talking about the legacy and all of the funny, crazy, quirky stories that you gentlemen have, that most of us weren't there for. We weren't behind the scenes where all the good stuff happened. I think it'll be a fun little refresher, a five-year tribute to Rob.

So we're going to go right into that. I wanted to start off with legacy, because when I was talking to Dave, the word legacy stuck out to me. So I'm like, okay, how can we kick this off? And I remembered you did an interview with 509 shortly after the avalanche happened, I think maybe within a year. You talked about the day before Rob's passing, and you made a comment. This is what Rob was telling you guys the day before his passing on April 3rd, 2020: "If I die tomorrow, I'm okay with it. I've accomplished more in my life than most men dream of." And obviously we know what happened the next day. My question to you is, did Rob always just throw stuff out like that, or was that a unique thing that he said?

We'd never heard anything like that. And what's crazy is he had put in for Arizona for like 17 years straight to get a big bull tag, and he drew the tag. I know about A3, they're the best hunting guide down in Arizona, because Rob would be on the phone throughout the years while we were traveling. So Rob called up Jay, the owner of A3, and said, hey, I got a tag. Rob never did anything guided, but the only thing he was doing was just going down there so they could put him on bulls right away.

But when Rob sent the deposit, he said to him, if I die, will my wife get the money back? And Jay, he's done this hundreds of times, and he's like, no one's ever asked that question. So that, and the comment that he said to Jason's dad, Raymond Nethercott, the one you read, it was almost like he had a feeling something was going to happen.

I was talking to Kim, Riley's mom, and I think it kind of gives us some peace that his time on Earth was done, and he had a feeling. After going through this, and it's been horrible, I've talked to other people and they've said they know people that had the same kind of premonition. I don't think a lot of us know when our time is up, but I feel like he did.

And I think that's kind of the goal of everyone. If we can get to that point and say, whether it was 20 years, 40, 50, 60, I've accomplished more with my time than most men dream of, I think you figured something out and you did it right with your time on Earth.

Yeah. And he did. You look at all of his accomplishments throughout his life, and the friendships that he had. I'll never be able to get to where he was.

So let's just say you haven't thought about Rob for a minute, you're out in public and someone says his name, Rob Kincaid. What's the first thing that pops into your mind? Ben, what do you got?

Man, it's just his face, probably, and that laugh. He had such an iconic voice. Honestly, there are some days, Dave, when we're out riding and you get heated with excitement, or you just get in this zone, I hear it almost come out of your voice, and it throws me back. It sets me back sometimes. I hear Rob in you.

So I think that's probably the first thing, and then from there it's just a waterfall of memories and emotions. Rob was just the life of the party, the life of the ride. He was the guy, and it was just fun seeing him in his element. It didn't matter where. I remember one time we went into this little hippie shop, and by the time we got out of there they were almost pro hunting. And that's a feat right there. That was his talent. He could get on anyone's level and find some commonality. He had a way with words that was funny, but then he could touch your heart at the same time.

So I'm the only one here who did not have a personal relationship with Rob at all. All of my memory is just what I saw as a spectator, through social media. And I could be totally off on this, but my view of Rob was, he's the guy you want in your group when things go sideways and it's super stressful and serious. He lightens the mood, calms everyone down and makes everyone feel like we're going to be okay, we got this.

100%. One thing to know about me is I did not grow up snowmobiling. I got into this sport when I started with Arctic Cat in 2017 and was just thrown into the wringer, kind of by myself. I did it to myself, because I wanted to. Riding with Rob and Dave and Riley was my first experience on a snowmobile ever, and my job was to film these guys to their full capability, showing them as the professional athletes that they are. So I was getting brought into terrain that I was totally uncomfortable in. Absolutely a fish out of water, are you kidding me?

But anytime I was out there and I had Rob and Dave and Riley there, it was always calming, because you always knew there was nothing you were going to get yourself into that these guys could not get you out of. And Rob especially was always the one that would come out and encourage you. You beat yourself up, it's a difficult sport, especially just starting in the mountains, and he was always the one to give you the ski pole and give you the tip to get you through where you were going. He taught me a tremendous amount of valuable lessons, for sure.

And he spent so much time in the mountains, all seasons, right?

Yeah. You talk about an outdoorsman, he was the ultimate outdoorsman. He taught me to respect Mother Nature more than I probably did at the time. I remember one time I broke my sled down, and he gave me his package of jerky, we had a big fire going, and he and Jason booked out and got me a new secondary clutch. Two hours later they came back and got me in the dark. But I knew Rob had me all set up. I was fine. I knew I was going to be fine. Like you say, you just always felt comfortable in the hills with them.

Dave, I remember you also talking about backcountry Rob. You said something somewhere that stuck with me. For how good we look at Rob as a professional snowmobiler, he was light years better as a hunter. He was this good at snowmobiling, but so much better as a hunter. How do we not have any films of Rob hunting?

No, there's none.

That was something he didn't like. This is my time.

I've got the closest thing to it, which was when we did that photo shoot out here for Arctic Cat side-by-sides. One of the scenes we were setting up, we had a guy on a scope, I think it was Kim on the scope, and he was bugling with this bugle that he had, and everybody's wearing camo. Oh my God, if he acted like that at all in the hunting world, I would be blown away. But he was the life of the party when it came to that. So we've got some fake hunting scenes.

Yeah. And my favorite quote of Rob is, he told me, "Dave, you don't talk about what you're really good at." Rob talked a lot about snowmobiling. He wasn't shy about telling you how good of an athlete he was at snowmobiling, but he never talked about how good of a hunter he was. And that's cool, because he was a world champion snowmobiler, but his hunting, I'd put him against anyone in the world. Honestly.

You don't talk about what you're actually really good at. That's money. So snowmobiling was just, how fun.

Yeah. Like, I'm a world champion, but it's not my passion.

Awesome. Well, this next question I have for you guys, there are three kind of sub-questions to it, so I'll divide it up between the three of you. How would you describe Rob as a father, a friend and a snowmobiler? We'll go Riley here with father.

Fair enough.

Snowmobiler or friend, which one do you guys want?

Better friend with him?

Oh, okay, so we can tag team. Okay, so how would you describe Rob as a father?

I mean, it's kind of tough, because back then I was kind of a punk, so I thought of him differently. He gave me a hard time a lot, and I thought he was mean, I guess. But now that I'm more mature, he pushed me to where I'm at today, with snowmobiling in general and hill climbing. He took a lot of pride in his family, for sure. Sometimes we'd think he was being a jerk, but he was just super hard and pushy and wanted us to succeed, I guess.

As a father you can see the potential in your kids, and you're like, I know you can get here, man, I'm going to drive you and push you so you can get here. And as young dumb kids we're just like, you're being mean to me, man, get off my back, right?

But yeah, it's super tough, because I was not mature back then.

So like any teenage boy, right?

Mm-hmm.

I would say from the outside looking in, seeing that relationship you had with your dad, there are two types of people that come out of a relationship like that. The kid can either grow up and get pushed away by their father with that kind of relationship and build resentment, or they can grow up and become a better, stronger person because of the way they were pushed. And I definitely see Riley as one of those kids that was the latter. He definitely grew up and embraced that, for sure.

Yeah, we would butt heads, but it was in a good way. It was for the better.

There was one day I remember a conversation with Rob. Back in the day he and I were riding almost daily, and he kind of said, "Dave, I'm going to take a day out of the week and I'm going to ride with Riley," kind of saying you're not invited. And I was like, that's fine, I'm good with it. Rob made that decision, and that's where Riley's snowmobile career just took off. It was fun for me to see, and I learned from Rob on that. I'm like, I need to slow down and take time for my kids. That's what Rob showed me to do.

Yeah, we had a little competition going, and I was like, I'm better than you now, and he's like, not yet, not yet. And then finally, I think it was 2020, he said something to you, like, I think Riley's got me, or something like that.

He didn't let you know, though.

Yeah, he told Dave, I can't let the kid know, though. But he took a lot of his time. He ran a drywall business and he was super busy working all the time, and he would take his time to take me snowmobiling, hunting, dirt biking, whatever it takes.

One time I caught horses with him at his place, and I remember how you and your mom were like...

Okay, hold on, hold on, I've got to stop you. For those of us who are listening, you just said we caught horses. Maybe explain a little bit, what does catching horses mean? Cowboy style, or what?

No, when you go hunting you've got to get your horses, and the horses get smart as the season goes on. They know if they get caught, they're going to go to work and sweat their butts off. So as the season progresses, they just get harder and harder to catch. Worst case, you rope them, but usually they just run in circles and you chase them around and try to get them in a corner. It takes a crew.

Okay, yeah.

Sometimes, depending on the horse. But ours, definitely.

But didn't your dad get so mad at you that he threw the lead rope at you to trip you on purpose?

I didn't want to talk about that.

I thought that was so funny. Because I was catching horses with him, and that was in the back of my mind. I was like, I better not make Rob mad.

So yeah, catching horses with him wasn't very fun.

Nice. So, Dave, as a friend. You've done this many times, but how would you describe Rob as a friend?

He's what we all need to try to emulate as a friend. I suck as a friend compared to Rob. Rob was a best friend to so many people. I've said it before on camera, there were like five of my friends, and we all considered Rob our best friend. He loved his family, he loved his friends, he really cared about people, and you knew it. Whenever he listened to what you had to say, he listened to every word. Sometimes you talk to someone, and as you start talking about yourself they kind of zone off and you can feel that. But he didn't. Just a great person all around. Honest, hardworking. Man of all men. Just a good, solid man. And smart. Quick witted.

So smart.

I wish I was as quick witted as him. So intelligent. I got a dang speeding ticket, the second speeding ticket in the same day, from two different officers, so I was screwed. I got off on the first ticket, and Rob knew if we got the cop laughing on the second speeding ticket that I'd get off of it, and we did. I wasn't planning on telling this story, but as I was getting pulled over the second time I was like, "Rob, what should I do?" And he's like, "What do you mean, Dave? You pull over." I was waiting for him to be like, oh, there's a side road right here, and I was going to run. And he's like, "No, Dave, you pull over."

So then the cop comes up, and Rob's like, "Write him up. This dumbass, he's an idiot, write him up. This is the second time he got pulled over." And the cop's like, "Never once have I ever had a friend try to get their friend a ticket. You guys are something else. Get out of here." So that's Rob.

That's classic. Nice.

All right, so Ben, as a snowmobiler.

Yeah, like I said earlier, just starting my career in the backcountry with Rob was a treat in itself. From my perspective, he was the best snowmobiler in the mountains, especially at that point. You see everybody on social media, and he was at the time one of the kings of social media as well. He was the person a lot of people followed. Most people in the industry followed Rob Kincaid. So having the privilege to be able to ride with him and film with him was amazing.

Not only was he an exceptional rider, but from a cameraman's perspective, he knew the shot too, and it was pretty impressive. A lot of times he would tell me what to do, and sometimes ego gets in the way, right? You're like, no, you don't have to tell me how to do my job. But he would find the spot, go over there with the long lens and shoot me coming through these trees, and it would always be a cool shot. It would always work out. Really knowledgeable. And just a fantastic athlete on a sled. He wasn't always doing the huge jumps, he wasn't into that big stuff, but the technical riding, he was the king of. He had the leverage, he had the strength. He was an animal on the snowmobile.

Well, and talking about social media, Arctic Cat at times has to say, why are we sponsoring you? So they look at the analytics of our social media. I remember they got back to us, and at the time we didn't even know how to do that, they were doing it for us. And it was Tucker Hibbert, Levi LaVallee and Rob Kincaid, top three on social media in the whole snowmobile industry. And I was just like, those are some big names.

Big names, and Rob was right there.

Yeah. And when you think about who else was on the team, you've got Brett Turcotte and Corey Davis and some of these other big guys. He was a powerhouse, and he knew how to do it too. He wasn't handing Riley the phone like, help me post this. He was smart with social media, even if the spelling was rough sometimes.

Well, that goes without saying. That maybe wasn't his strong suit. But he was always up to date on social media.

Well, and I think the only times you ever got in trouble at Arctic Cat were due to some of Rob's...

100%. Rob's posts. Yeah. Rob got me closer to getting fired than anything else. Well, except for a couple of other times, but those were self-inflicted. But Rob, for sure.

One of the last times I rode with Rob, I think it was our tour down to Colorado when we did that press trip. For these guys it was, what was it, 14 hours, something crazy, and we put these three guys in the car. And I was like, well, you guys have a lot of time on your hands, so here's an objective for you. We gave them several kits that they were going to drop off, like a scavenger hunt. They were going to post on their social stories, here's a hint, here we are, and give hints where they were leaving this goodie bag with shirts and whatever, and people would go find them.

I was traveling to meet you guys, and anything that we get tagged in on Arctic Cat, I just repost, repost, repost. I didn't really even look at it. Negligent on my part, to say the least, but I trusted these guys. And there was one stop you guys did in this dealership, and Rob is wearing this goofy half helmet thing they found in the dealership, and he's holding this bag, and he goes, "This one's for all you carrot-snapping gangbangers out there." Dave behind the camera goes, "I don't think there are a lot of gangbangers in Utah." And Rob goes, "There are a lot of people in Utah, Dave."

I get a call from my boss. He's like, "What is on our social media right now? We can't say that stuff. What's a carrot snapper?" And all this stuff. Oh my gosh. But that was just one of those times. I think I had to pull it down, but somebody did find the clue. It was up long enough.

Long enough to get a call, and for somebody to find the clue. Objective nailed.

There we go. Accomplished.

Awesome. So Riley, growing up, your dad is Rob. Like we just said, in his prime he was one of the top three, not just athletes, but, I don't even know if they called them influencers back then, but spokespeople for the sport of snowmobiling. So what was it like growing up with that being your dad? Did you even really understand?

No. I just saw him as my dad, and I thought he was overhyped, I guess. He's just my dad, an old man. And I'd always tell him that. I'm like, you're not a big deal. I don't know why you have so many followers and all this. But now, looking back on it, he was a legend. He knew how to get people riled up on social media with his Polaris versus Arctic Cat videos. And not many people can say they have a dad that has more followers than them, right? It's usually the opposite. So yeah, he was super good at building his social media. Back then I didn't see it, but now I do.

And part of it was because he was unhinged. He would say anything. He would get people going like that. Probably saying what most of us are thinking but don't have the nuggets to say, right? A PR nightmare, but from a publicity standpoint, awesome.

Yeah. I was super fortunate, because I wouldn't even be snowmobiling if he was a nobody, you know?

I want to take us to the year 2019. Japan. You and Rob. Was there anyone else, or was it just you two? I mean, you guys met people out there, but the objective was to go snowmobiling in Japan. What were you guys there to accomplish?

It's bad, I can't remember. We went to Japan twice. One time we took David McKenna, and the next time we brought a buddy, Justin Stevens, who used to work for MotorFist. I think probably '19 was with Justin, I think.

I've seen some videos, I think you guys were rocking MotorFist, so maybe it was a MotorFist deal.

Well, we were probably wearing it on both trips. We were wearing 509 helmets all the time that we were with MotorFist. But we traveled so much around the Intermountain West going to shows and stuff that I kind of got bored with that, and I saw the opportunity to do these Scandinavian trips. We went to Iceland, and then Japan, and we were pumped to go, just because it was new and it was fun and it was different.

I always wanted those trips to be seven days, but Rob wanted to go for two weeks, because we would go to those places and we would be rock stars. We'd be signing kids' foreheads, signing windshields and trailers and trucks, and Rob just loved it. Rob ate that up. It was fun. And in Japan, we both like sushi, and we thought we were going to be eating some really good food, and the food sucked.

Really? We're being lied to over here, is what you're saying?

Well, I take that back. The last restaurant they finally took us to was some of the best food I've ever had. But I remember this one continental breakfast where I couldn't find anything to eat. Some of the stuff, I would fish with it, and that was it. I didn't even want to touch it. And Rob was so kind and so courteous. We had a translator, a woman, I won't say her name, and Rob's like, "Just make me an authentic, you know, what you eat for breakfast. I want to try it. I want to be immersed in the culture." So she brought this little bowl of sticky rice that looked like it had spiderwebs in it, and it was just disgusting looking. But Rob was so polite that he just ate it all. And as soon as we got back to the hotel I was like, "Rob, was that good?" He's like, "No, it's the worst I've ever had." But he didn't want to hurt her feelings.

That's funny. So as far as the riding in Japan versus what we have out here in the Rockies, was there anything drastically different that you noticed as soon as you hopped on the machines over there?

Totally. We were just on stock 800s, and they felt like our superchargers back home. At sea level, an 800 felt really, really powerful. The snow was awesome. The JaPow is a real thing. They don't have the fluctuations in weather like we do, so it just stays like 20 degrees all the time. They were like, oh, the snow's not that great, and we got there and we're like, geez, it's awesome. And there are these weird trees with green leaves. All of our green leaves are gone in the fall, but we're sledding through these big green leaves. Super fun terrain.

Interesting. So as far as photo shoots go, Ben, I'm sure there's a lot in the bank, right?

Yeah.

But do you have a favorite? Is there one that particularly sticks out, that's my favorite one from a photo shoot with Rob?

Every year we had them on a photo shoot for snow, and there were always those moments. But I think the one that maybe stands out is a dirt photo shoot. We were hunting for a location, and Rob spoke up, like, I've got the perfect place for you. And sure enough, it's his property. So we spent a week out here in Teton Valley, in Victor and Driggs. We were shooting a scene for a utility side-by-side, and we were setting the scene up where we were moving sprinklers, so Rob is hand-line moving pipe. And Rob is way off in the corner of this field. How big do you think that field was?

Was that about an acre? No, it was bigger than an acre. It was like five acres.

Yeah. So I'm flying a drone during this photo shoot, and I have this aerial view of this spring scene going on, this guy moving pipe, and off camera there's this lady driving one of the side-by-sides to move people around, and she hits a main line. And just out of the ground is a fire hydrant, erupting. I didn't even know that was there. I didn't know how much power was behind that. This thing was like 30 feet in the air, just shooting straight up.

Old Faithful.

Old Faithful, for sure. And I'm looking at it like, oh, that's not good, still trying to get the shot. And then sure enough, out of frame from the other corner of this field comes Rob, full force, full marathon sprint. He's a tall guy, he had a stride, and he was just beelining it to this valve. So I pan the camera, like, this shot's over, whatever's happening here is now the scene. I got this epic shot. I was way high, I come down into him, get real close to him, and he's still charging, and he runs straight to the valve to cut this thing off, and he was just cussing up a storm. It was so funny.

Is that live anywhere? Did that get published?

I've got it in the bank somewhere. I'll send you a link, because there are so many of these videos that come to mind. A lot of it just comes from the memories that we have on camera, because we get to relive them so often. A lot of the memories I have of Rob. So I'll share some of those with you. I think I put an epic soundtrack to it, from Rocky.

Oh yeah. That's another thing people don't know. Sports-wise, Rob was a phenomenal athlete. He probably wasn't out of breath by the time he got there. Just like running a 40, full on.

Yeah, sending it, full on. Good times. A lot of memories with him. A lot of memories.

So Riley, take us back to the day that you won your first Semi Pro King. This is Rob Kincaid himself, his son wins Semi Pro King. What was your interaction with your dad in that moment?

That was a long time ago.

Sorry. And give us the year too, if you remember.

I think it was 2019. I got off the hill, and I don't know quite what he was saying. He was probably bragging to people in the pits, saying that's my son, because he was super prideful of me. All I remember is just taking a picture. I don't know exactly what he said to me. He might have just given me a fist bump or whatever and then went and bragged to people in the pits. It was so long ago I don't really remember what he said to me, but I know for sure that he was bragging about it.

Yeah. Rob was always talking about Riley and Shelby. I knew all of Shelby's basketball stats. I didn't want to know Shelby's basketball stats, but I knew how good she was. And same with Riley. And now I can relate, because now all I want to do is talk about my kids. You can't really say it to them, you don't want to give them a huge ego, but you've got to go tell someone, right?

Right. For those who maybe weren't following the hill climb circuit back then, did the timing ever sync up to where you and your dad raced on the same mountain?

I think it happened a couple of times, but back then, the way they lined us up, we weren't so close. We were kind of spread out, so we never really knew until my mom was like, hey, you guys ran at the same time. I remember one time at Targhee we were pretty close to running, and my dad put his hand through a clutch because he hit a tree full pin and screwed up his wrist. They wanted to take him to the hospital, they had to ski patrol him off the mountain. This was at Targhee, they don't have that race anymore. But he's like, no, I want to stay and watch Riley. So he was literally in the back of an ambulance, and they had it back up to the hill so he could watch my run, and then he went to the hospital.

Wow.

But I don't think we ever really ran at the same time, most of the time.

But you got a couple of seasons together where you were both on the mountain.

He would go out of his way to help me in the pits and whatever. He would lose focus on his racing just to help me out.

Yep, that's right.

So Dave, let's talk Jackson. You guys are friends. Were there friendly battles on the hill climb circuit between you two? How was that chemistry between the two of you?

It's funny, that took me back when Riley was talking about Rob running his hand through the clutch. Whoever did better at that run won the points championship for that class. It was the last race of the year, and that was one of the reasons why Rob was going so hard. He was trying to thread the needle by this tree and just missed and hurt his hand. But I didn't know, so I'm down there and I'm just ticked, because when you're in the zone you want to go, and I had to wait for the ambulance and the medics and everything.

Everyone has a different, I feel like every racer has a different deal that works for them at the races. Rob's was being the social butterfly and keeping his mind a little bit off the race. Where I couldn't do that. I just had to focus and watch, and I didn't do a lot of talking. I didn't try to be standoffish or rude to anyone, but I didn't talk a whole lot with Rob, and that kind of always bugged Rob. But we were friendly competitors. We definitely wanted to beat each other, but if I got beat, I wanted Rob to beat me.

You were talking about Jackson. I remember Rob asking me, Rob had not climbed Jackson, and he's like, "Dave, how do you do it? How do you climb Jackson?"

So you had done it before?

I had climbed Jackson, yeah. And he's like, "What's your trick?" And I was like, "Rob, it's just like backcountry riding. Just picture me on the top of that mountain, and you're going to be damned if you're not going to get up there." So here, a week later, we're racing at Jackson. I went up Jackson and I was at the top, and I had an okay run, and here comes Rob, and he beat me. I knew my run wasn't good, and as he was coming up I knew he had me beat, and I was cheering him on, man. To this day I have the picture in my front room of my house. I look at it every day, of me and him hugging at the top of the mountain. It was a special memory. In that moment I was so pumped to have Rob beat me, and that was his first world championship.

Awesome. That's cool.

If we were to move on from the hill climb stuff, I'm sitting next to the Black Cats right here, right? The boss, and then the Black Cats. Riley, when was the first year, what was it like getting the call? I mean, you probably had to, Ben, be one of the youngest to get that call. Is that a correct assumption?

Yeah. Technically, Cat started the Black Cats, and then they kind of, I don't know.

I guess, yeah, give us a little bit of history of the Black Cats. When did it start?

It was before my time at Cat, for sure. It started with Corey Davis, Dave, Rob and Turcotte, and it was mostly focused on that extreme backcountry riding type of stuff. Destination and Elevation came from it, and both of them are awesome films, if you get a chance to go back and look at those. And then the whole acquisition of Arctic Cat came, they sold to Textron, and then it kind of died off a little bit from there. Budgets were a lot different than they were before, so we had to make some cuts, and the Black Cat scene was fragile at that point.

But we knew there was value in it. I knew there was value in it, at least from a content perspective. So from an internal perspective, I was just trying to come up with pitches to help keep the team alive in some capacity, and we were able to kind of sell it. And I think a couple of years after we had the Black Cats back together, we brought R&D back. R&D, which the hat you're wearing is from, was kind of a series with obviously Rob and Dave. It was just those two. And we thought it'd be great, Riley's coming up, he's becoming a really good backcountry rider, he's obviously the son of a legend, we've got to bring him in in some capacity. We can capitalize on this. So that's where our R&D was born, and the rest is history.

What year are we talking?

God, I think it was '21. 2021?

No, when we did the R&D thing, 2019, I think.

No, yeah, it was 2019, because Togwotee was our first episode we did, I think, at a photo shoot. Or maybe it was '20, because I remember we were riding the 2021 sleds. So maybe it was 2020.

Oh, it might have actually been 2020. The 2020 season. I don't know, you're quizzing me.

We were riding 2020s, but I think it was 2019. That's what it was.

Remember when it was your first sponsored sled and Rob wrecked it?

Yeah, he rolled it. He was telling me, you can't wreck these photo shoot sleds, you absolutely cannot, don't ride them hard. And then, I wasn't there, but he's like, oh, I rolled your sled. And this was the backcountry sled that I was going to get to take home, and he totaled it. Ben would know more about what really happened. But we always would say that if you wreck a sled at a photo shoot, we'll send you home. Somehow Rob always got off the hook. He was a sweet talker.

But yeah, 2019, I think, was the year we started our R&D, and that was an amazing year.

That's pretty cool. So in 2019 you would have been, what, 18, 19?

I've lost track of time. Probably around there.

Yeah, because that was six years ago, roughly, and you're 24. 18, 19. Just a young gun then.

Yeah. And it was super cool to get that experience.

So were you still in high school?

No, I was one year out, I think. I was graduated. But it was tough, because I was super shy and didn't know how to talk to people. They were filming me doing some lifestyle stuff, me and my dad talking, and I would just sit there quiet.

It's probably tough, because your dad's a social butterfly. It's like, I've got to live up to this guy.

I did not get that trait.

I wasn't there, but I remember your dad telling me that at your very first interview you passed out.

Passed out? No way. Serious?

Yep. We were doing a 509 interview.

Were you standing, like legs straight, or you don't even remember?

Passed out, yeah. I used to get super nervous with cameras around me and stuff. I was good with a helmet on, but as soon as I had to talk to the camera I was just like, I don't know what to say. I was super shy, so it was tough.

So legit passed out. Were any cameras rolling? Do we have the archives?

Yeah, they probably got it. Probably was Gatlin. Oh, Michael Gatlin was filming.

Same for me, though. I was just the quiet guy that sat back, and Rob did all the talking. And it was fun. It was a perfect duo, you know?

Absolutely. Dave, and I think you guys can all address this, since Rob's passing, and we were talking about this a little bit yesterday, how has the snowmobile industry changed regarding avalanche safety and awareness?

After Rob passed, we did that sled build with AIARE, and we generated a ton of money for that, and that money went to AIARE. The AIARE people reached out to Kim Kincaid, and they were like, who was this guy? We've done fundraisers, we've done other things trying to generate money, and this is unprecedented. This is 20 times what we've ever generated. That was how much of an impact he had on people in the snow industry.

And any time prior to Rob's passing, beacon checks at the trailhead were kind of cumbersome. At some point somebody would roll their eyes and be like, we don't really need to do this. And now that's totally changed. I haven't been on a ride where we haven't done one, and I think everyone's doing them now. Whoever initiates it, at the end of it there's some continuity and some unity in the group, and everyone feels better about it. And I know that's Rob saving lives, countless lives. Unfortunately Rob's gone, but now that's a constant reminder that it's not negotiable.

Yeah, before going, we're doing those checks. Like you wouldn't go riding without your helmet.

Right, or your gloves. It's to that level now, where it's like, no, we do these checks, we have these tools for this. I feel like it has totally changed the industry. And AIARE even said the increase in people looking for avalanche education has really changed as well.

You're seeing now the stationary beacon checkpoints set up in most of the well-known zones. I don't know if that was part of the program, but we ride a lot in Island Park, and in most of those zones up there you're seeing the stationary checkpoints. It was something a lot more prevalent for backcountry skiing, I feel like. I don't think motorized had the same type of education and exposure that backcountry skiing had, and I think Rob helped push that forward. In an unfortunate way, but obviously for the better. It's a lot more prominent now. Like Dave was saying, it's uncomfortable if you don't do a beacon check or a trailhead check ahead of time.

Yeah, it's the opposite now.

Yeah, you're right. If you don't, for sure.

Awesome. So we spent a lot of time tonight talking about Rob's legacy, and one of the last things I want to talk about is Rob's legacy like this. If you could get one more day to ride with Rob, what would that day look like?

Getting lots of shots of him. Just film it.

"Yeah, Riley, come along, you're going to take pictures of me all day."

No, it'd be super fun. I'd love to show him how good I've gotten on a snowmobile compared to then, my progression. It would just be a rad day.

For me, I didn't even know Rob was really doing this, but Rob had a trap line that he had to check every three days, and I was just young and dumb enough...

Rob was a trapper?

Oh yeah. World class. He got an award for trapping, for his pelts.

What? I thought just Alaskans do that stuff.

He made $110,000 one winter just trapping. I remember one time the pine marten wasn't dead, and he was whacking it with a stick of wood, and I'm just sitting there watching like a kid, and the next thing I know I had blood across my goggles. And then he'd just stick the dead pine martens in his ABS backpack and we'd go. So to answer that question, I would love to go on one of those. I was just along for the ride, but he needed to go check his traps, and it was an extensive, hard loop that we would do. We just had a good time checking those. So that's what I'd like to do again.

Yeah, that's something he used to do with me a lot. I'd go check traps in the dark with him. There was one time we were riding double on our four-stroke, and there was an aspen tree in the trail, and he was trying to drive over it, but his ski just kept pushing the tree. I was in like eighth grade, and the tree just sprang back and hit me right between the eyes and broke my nose. I had two black eyes, blood squirting out of my eye socket, and I was like, why would you do that? I never went trapping with him again after that. But then he's like, okay, you're old enough to ride a big sled. So that's when I started riding the M Series 600.

Awesome. Definitely cool. Ben, do you have one?

Yeah. For me, it goes back to one of the first rides I ever had on a snowmobile. It was with Rob, up Pole Canyon. For anybody that's gone up there, you go through the Goat Trail, and then you get up to that big hill. What do they call that?

It's just a hill.

The hill, to me, was the biggest hill I've ever seen in my life.

Riley climbed it at 11 years old.

Okay, well.

On a 600. It's not big.

I was on Rob's race sled, I think it was his purple sled. It wasn't a supercharger, but it was like a stage two or something. It was more sled than I needed. And I point it up this hill, and I'm like, oh gosh. Riley and Rob are at the top, and I think I've got a video of it on my phone too, of him at the top going, "You think he's going to make it, Riley?" And it's just me down there, this little black dot.

So I rip up to the top of this hill, and I was like, I got to the top of that, and we can maybe go another quarter mile, and I'm tapped, I'm not going to make it very far. And he points off into the distance, and it's a huge wide open landscape, and he goes, "We're riding all the way out there," and he points to this mountain that looks like it's 100 miles away. And I'm like, no, we're not. He's like, yeah, we are. And I was like, okay. So we go down one more hill and I just get stuck, can't make it up. I'm not a good snowmobiler. So we obviously didn't make it to that. So I would say if I had one more ride with Rob, it would be to go to that place that he was serious about going to, which I think was probably a point out by the Palisades. I don't know. It was way out, for me, for sure. It was incomprehensible. But now I think I could do it, and I would love to.

That's great. Thanks for sharing those. I know it's kind of a tough question, but kind of fun to think about, where would we go, what would we actually do. To close things out, I'm going to ask you guys one question. We ask this question to everyone on the podcast, and usually it's about you, right? But this time it's going to be about Rob. What is one thing that whoever's listening probably doesn't know about Rob? What's that hidden little secret? What do we got?

He loved mountain biking, and he actually did a couple of mountain bike races, and he podiumed, I think, every single one he entered.

Wow.

Yeah. Athlete. Extremely good at mountain biking. He would always say, "Do you know how big my calves are?" That was Rob too. Mind over matter. He had so much determination, and that's why he excelled so well at mountain biking. He could just power through the pain.

Nice. Any others? Any other little things where you're like, I bet you no one knows this?

I can't think of anything. The man was so vocal, there wasn't much that he kept to himself.

Yeah, he didn't keep to himself.

What's that? He's from Michigan? Oh, I did not know that. Stephen Clark shouts out from the background.

He loved bird ranching, or whatever you call that. Just birds in general. We had turkeys, chukars, pheasants.

Like as pets?

Chickens just rolling around the yard. No, in cages, harvesting the eggs and stuff.

Oh, okay. Pens. So you guys were eating all sorts of eggs.

Yeah. I don't even know what we did with the chukars or the pheasants. He just liked having them.

He was a fantastic gardener.

Really?

Yeah, he had an amazing greenhouse and garden, and took a lot of pride in it. But I think for me it was just how much he loved his family. It's really apparent that they loved him, and he was the glue that held a lot of friendships together. Just an amazing human being that we all should try to be more like.

Well, thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you guys. We've been chatting about this for, I think, almost two years. It was a couple of Rexburg Motorsports shows ago where I kind of had the idea, and it just took a while. I think this felt right, a good time to do this five-year tribute to Rob Kincaid and his legacy. I'm glad that you guys were willing to jump on and share these things that most of us haven't ever heard before. So thank you guys so much for jumping on the Sledder Cast podcast and allowing us to have this conversation about the legend and legacy of Rob Kincaid.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks, guys.