Boondock Nation: The Final Chapter with Jack Sarama

Okay. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back once again. Another season, season 3. We're just a quick little snap and we're back here at Hay Days. Hard to believe. You know, you get to June and you're like, I got like 3 months to kind of get things ready and then all of a sudden you're unloading a trailer here.

Working at it. It's been cold. Yesterday was really cold here. So, I don't know what the temperature was like where you guys are, but it was super cold here yesterday.

Jack and I played golf yesterday at the Turcotte golf tee-off.

Yeah. Did you guys get wet over there? Cuz it was wet.

It's kind of a nice rain and it was chilly. Like I wore a hoodie.

I'm wearing pants. This is the coldest Hay Days I've experienced.

Yeah, same here. I think it was a high of 53 yesterday. Today's maybe a degree warmer. I think honestly what this is going to do is maybe get people even more stoked for winter at this annual Hay Days fiesta.

If you're selling hoodies, I think you're going to I think you're going to push some hoodies.

One of the things I really do like about Hay Days is the amount of I'd almost say celebrities that just kind of pop around.

Who else are we going to see? You know, bam, we've got Jack.

Yeah. You just never know. It's like everywhere you look.

You're walking through a sea of people and then all of a sudden boom.

Yeah. And there's no there's no other event like it out there. And what's crazy is it's kind of I mean for the Midwestern folk it's easy, but for everyone else, you know, we're driving 20 hours to get here, you know, from both coasts. So it is. Well, Jack, last time we had you on, you were in our neck of the woods. You, you ended out our season one of Sledder Cast with a bang. We surprised you guys with with

I'm looking around for the ice bath.

Is this whole curtain going to drop? And we're going to have a big tub back there. We should have done that. But you know what? You It seemed like you were right in your helmet there. Dylan. Dylan, not so much, but you were just right. You soaked it right in.

I know. I haven't been plunging much lately, though. So, I think I would struggle if we did it today, especially with how cold it is today.

Yeah. No, but yeah, that was a couple years ago. Well, about a year and a half ago we when we shot that. Stoked to have you back on. We've got some we got a fun conversation and you we'll get into kind of what you got going on, but you yourself just filmed a solo podcast.

And I think if we time it right, this one might drop after that or around the same time. So if you're listening to this and you haven't gone and on and listened to Jack's solo episode, do you have a name for it yet?

Yeah, it's called Live Free Ride On. Live free. Right on, dude.

So, is that what you would search to find it? Yeah, because now I'm interested. I want to hear you've got to publish that now cuz we like we're cementing it.

Jack's probably like, “Yeah, why did you bring that up? I'm not sure I'm going to publish it yet.” But

There is a couple things I still have to figure out yet. Whether that's going to be its own channel or it'll be under Long Track Jack, but that'll be the brand. There will be a bunch of things associated with that, too. But yeah, my goal is to, you know, kind of start in snowmobiling and talk with this community, but talk more about just sledding or more than just sledding, you know, talk about life and All the things that go on that make us do this stuff and make us live free and ride on. So, that's the that's the goal.

Are you planning to interview people and have guests or are you just kind of Okay.

Yeah. So, it'll be both. There will be some solo episodes, but it'll mostly be guest interviews.

What type of prep does it take? Like did you have to go out and buy all this audio equipment and recording stuff and like set yourself up like the Deviant Crew here with their like we've got three different cameras and this mixer board and all these headsets like did you go just

There's a lot of good info out there and I've had the benefit of being on a few podcasts before and kind of seeing how things work. Yeah. And I've been taking notes the last few years. Like this is something I've always wanted to do. I appreciate you guys having me on a couple years ago. And, every podcast that I'm on, I really enjoy, so I figured I'd take a crack at it myself. And, you know, just putting a short list of potential guests together. There was tons of great names I knew I could get, you know, with just a phone call. So that kind of inspired me to do it, too.

And, I'm excited to see what I can bring to the table and put more and more snowmobile content out there.

Yeah. My only advice is as long as you bring someone on that you're like genuinely curious to know more about it makes I mean it's pretty selfish what do you think about it but like, when we bring you guys on it's like I there's something I want to know about you right and I think as long as you start from there you can have generate a pretty good conversation you know you don't have to really fabricate anything so that'll be cool

I think that's great advice so thank you. Yeah I'm excited I'm excited to kick it off. So yeah, a lot of what we'll be talking about today, I think, I'll be going into depth in that first episode and then after that we're going to roll into guest series. But Yeah, I've been, you know, just for the last couple years driving around, if I have a thought that pops into my head, I've been writing it down, you know, whether it's a topic or a question I want to ask a specific person or whatever. So there's been a lot of prep going into it and I think it's going to

That's cool. Yeah, that's exciting to see. You know, I think more information out there, providing more information for people to gobble up really is really cool. And, you know, you're a great storyteller and a thoughtful individual that brings a lot in conversation. Just the like the random convos we have when we're not recording stuff have been really cool. So, I'm excited to check that out.

Thank you. Appreciate that. That means a lot.

We were just on a live, but for those who didn't catch it, because I don't think we were recording, we've got Duncan Lee here. I'm sure you know him. Maybe if he had his sleeves rolled up, you would know him by his by his manifestation of tattoos on his arms, but But yeah, we've got Duncan Lee here with us who's going to help lighten up the conversation. So, bring a little fun to the conversation, but wanted to start off. I know we've done this, you've done this, like just give us a brief intro of you and like how you got started with Boondock Nation.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm talking like 30 seconds cuz you've

There's so much out there about, you know, the Boondock Nation story, but like for those who maybe just be tuning in for the first time, just like a 30 second the last 10, 15 years.

Yeah, for sure. We can condense 10 years into 30 seconds. Let's do it. Well, I'm Jack Sarama, Long Track Jack. Born and raised in the upper Midwest, northern Wisconsin, right on the border of Michigan. Been cutting my teeth in the mountains for the last several years, spending the winters in the Jackson Hole area. I love big air. I've always kind of been a Ski-Doo guy, but not afraid to play with other brands, too. I've had some cats, I've had some Polaris. Spend the winters traveling with Boondock Nation, filming a broadcast TV series and a YouTube channel all over North America really. We go to Canada usually a couple times a year.

Bounce all over the west, do a lot of stuff in the Midwest and the UP, and we've even been out east, too. So, that's kind of the quick 30,000 beautiful Of what I've been up to for the last several years.

I'm going to add something to that cuz when I first met you, you guys just started Boondock Nation and your guys' riding skill level was like intro to backcountry and now you guys are like leading technical and like when Jack says he's into big air, dude sends it. It's like it's sick. So, it's been really fun to watch.

That's a fun progression to be able to see for sure.

Yeah. I was like, what are these guys doing? Oh, man. They got a little ways to go. And then a few years later, I was like, they're doing it. This is awesome. So, really fun to watch.

Thank you. Yeah. You know, that's pretty remarkable because when I look back at some of the early stuff, it's like kind of cringe now, you know, but the community has always embraced us. Like from day one, we kind of had this idea and we were like we didn't know anything at the time. People still jumped on board, you know, brands sponsoring us and people believing in us, you know, and the audience, too. Like sometimes I'm scrolling through my notifications, I see comments and likes from people who I recognize from like day one, year one, you know, still following along.

So, I think it's kind of relatable in that way that it came from humble beginnings. We were young. We were like 18 years old starting this out, right? And just barely knew how to ride a snowmobile. But that was the point, you know, and now to be at riding at the level that I am, It's I just can't even believe it. Like every day I pinch myself.

Yeah. What you said something right at the beginning of that, what I think a lot of people don't realize is you're like at the beginning I look back and it was pretty cringe. That thought I think keeps a ton of people from not starting and doing something in when in reality when you first start out, dude, no one's watching your crap. Like you haven't built an audience yet, right? So it's like be cringe until you figure out how to not be cringe and by that time you've built up an audience and people, you know, are now that's what they're viewing now.

Like you worked out the cringiness Where no one was really there, you know, you got to kind of go through that. I think that speaks on you have to fail to be great, you know? You like

The more failures you have, the more you'll learn from it and be able to change it into something amazing. So like you have to get out there

Yeah. And I don't know if it's the same for every sport or industry, but I feel like people in this community like see somebody trying and they're like, “Hell yeah.” you know, gonna support as long as you're not a, you know, as long as you're not rude, as long as you're a genuine person, like the community is here to support other snowmobilers. You know, this sport isn't a given, you know, it's not a right. We are privileged to be able to ride the trails that we do, the public lands that we do, and it's not easy either.

So, I think everybody has that kind of mutual respect, and I think that's something that's unique about the snowmobile community. So for anyone that's looking to try and make a name for themselves in this community, like I think that's super encouraging, you know, to know that you're going to kind of have that support from people as long as you're trying hard and doing your best.

Yep. Love it. So that was a fun little intro. We're in we're into it now, boys.

We're getting deep here. So, you kind of gave us a 30 second, kind of brief intro of you and Boondock. Where does Boondock Nation sit now? I think that's kind of a question that I don't know by the time this goes live in a month, you know, if if that if there's some more clarity there that's out there. But as far as right now in this moment, where does Boondock Nation sit right now?

Yeah, things are changing for sure. You know, there's a little bit of a changing of the tide. As we sit here at Hay Days right now, Dylan is about to become a father at like any minute at a boy, Right? Yeah. So, super happy for him and Katie. But obviously with that comes some changes to the program, right? Like, can't expect him to be on the road all winter out west, traveling the country, with a newborn at home. So, we've been trying to figure that out. Trying to figure out how whether we're going to continue on as Boondock Nation and do some other things. Or, you know, I'm starting a couple new things as well in addition to that.

So, yeah, it's not going to continue in the same way that it has. Obviously part of my goal for Boondock Nation was to bring it outside of me and Dylan and get more and more creators involved, more people involved, but we haven't really made that pivot fast enough yet. So, all the content has been about me and Dylan. So, yeah, the future is really up in the air for Boondock Nation at this time and I don't think we'll be continuing in the same way that we have.

I hope to continue to make some Nation content, but regardless, I'm going to be still on the road a bunch, still riding out west most of this winter, as well as focusing on a new venture that I'm starting in the upper Midwest in the upper peninsula. That I'm pretty excited about. So, it's all good between all of us. But things are just not going to continue in the way that they have.

Logistics is huge. Like if you can't do the same program, you have to find a way to change dodge, duck, dive, and dodge to figure it out.

Yeah. And it's been I mean, I thought a lot about this over the last several months, as you can imagine, right? And really, you know, what that brand has been what me and Dylan have built. I mean, there's other guys involved to begin with and a lot of people along the way that have helped us get to where we have been. Like there it's been a team effort for sure, but for it to continue on like I don't know if I'd necessarily feel right about it just being me you know going forward.

We thought about potentially maybe doing some stuff in the Midwest while I'm out west, but at this point, you know, it's like we've kind of set a standard for what is to be expected with the Boondock Nation name and I don't know if we can like we can continue at that standard and we don't want to we don't want to move backwards. So, I don't know. It's kind of up in the air right now.

What do you think made the Boondock Nation era, the program that you guys built? What do you think made it different than you know, the other YouTube channels out there?

You know, that's a good question. I think we kind of dropped in at the right time. You know, the social media age kind of developing in the mid-2010s. You know, we launched our pages in like 2014, 2015. Yeah. So, we were kind of on the leading edge of people doing that type of stuff. I mean, when we started, there was other groups out there, but we really took it seriously.

I mean, for us being Midwest guys and jumping in and moving out west and being like, “This is what we're going to do, and we're going to post every day about what we're up to, and we're going to go ride with as many people as we can and travel to as many places as we can.” I think that was super unique. But it's also like the nation side of it, too. Like that was always our big thing as the nation of riders. Like ride with as many people as we can. It doesn't matter if you're a pro athlete or just some local average Joe in this place that we're at. We're down to ride with everybody as long as we're like on the same page in terms of vibes.

Like it's all one big family. So I think we got a lot of support because of that. A lot of people jumped on board to support us. Like whether you're officially part of the team or not. There's so many people like countless people that have just been there for us supporting us like Duncan you being one of them you know since pretty much the beginning. So everywhere we go you know we've met up in Revelstoke. We've met up in Jackson Hole area even in Utah like all over the place. So I think that's kind of what made it unique. We'd also come to the shows like this and have a big presence.

Like we spent a lot of time and effort and money making a big presence at these shows and throwing events and parties and stuff like that. And I think all those elements combined really made it seem larger than life which it was. I mean for us especially.

I think one of the things you guys capitalize on, you mentioned it, is really setting the vibe and you and Dylan are really good at creating a vibe of stoke that people gravitate towards. They want to be a part of it. You're selling stoke. Like you're not actually, you're just brokering it, right? Cuz there's no transaction. You're not going to go buy stoke, but like these guys, you go to one of these events and you feel like you're a part of the gang. It's so fun and you're just having a good time and you're helping others have a good time.

And so I think that's one of the things that you guys were really able to do well was cultivate this stoke, this vibe, and then tell a story about where you're taking it, where you're going, and then experiencing the things that place has to offer. So from the outside, you know, or kind of midway halfway in, right? Cuz like I love when people get fired up and our community is awesome.

So being a part of that and like latching on to some stoke and go for a fun ride like you guys just nailed it and made it really cool to go do these and then watching the videos like oh that place looks awesome and I think you shared information that wasn't available at the time yet right like oh I want to go to X place, well it looks like Boondock Nation did an episode on this location. I mean you guys dove into where to go eat, who's got the best waffles or the chicken and waffles or whatever meal, right? And you broke it down and I think you made the community understand what it takes and where to go to experience these things.

So, you know, I think you guys have been doing a great service for local businesses, the community of snowmobiling, and creating an epic vibe to be a part of.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, the travel is a big part of it. You know, a lot of people travel to ride whether it's by choice or not. You know, it's always fun to go on a sled trip with the homies, but some people can't even ride their home areas depending on the winter, right? So, we wanted to provide a resource of sorts to be able to do that. And I still think there's a ton of potential there. You know, there's so many cool sled towns and so many cool people in these areas to check out and people to talk to. So, want to continue to do more travel like that.

Yeah, I think you guys did a great job of really, at least from where I was sitting, bridging the gap between the Midwest and Mountain West, right? I saw a lot of what you guys did just for Out West Sled Fest. And Island Park, from what we're used to it being in the summertime with millions of tourists coming through there, to the winter time, it's dead in the winter time except for the week that Out West Sled Fest is there and there are trailers, sled decks, snowmobiles, trucks everywhere. And most of them are coming from the Midwest.

Right? You look at the license plates, you know, they're from all over. And that's why we called it Out West Sled Fest because we're definitely catering to the Midwest folks to come out and ride and have an experience and get to know people. You know, I think the networking side of it is huge. Like there's been riding groups formed out of that event that continue on and you see these people going to ride in different areas and you know we know that they met there. So I think that's a big part of it too, right? Cuz it's like if you're going to drive 20 hours across the country to go ride somewhere

And then you can find the parking lot, hopefully.

Then where do you even go, right? So for people to have the chance to link up with other people and figure those things out for themselves and continue to expand their knowledge base of where to go and who to ride with and some of their skills too, like Duncan, you being a part of promoting avalanche education and safety throughout those events and you know, not only dropping some nuggets of information that people can take away right there, but stressing the importance of it and pursuing that education path. That's huge for the Midwest rider, too.

So, yeah, a lot of good things have come from events like that and I think that's been a big part of the mission. So yeah, glad you guys have felt that, too.

Out West Sled Fest guy right there. What's up, Dutch?

Say if it's not on the outline, it's off the table.

Just kidding. But what type of push back did Boondock Nation feel from like giving away honey holes? And I know you guys did pretty good at not giving away honey holes. I also know it's really difficult to go film stuff not in honey holes because you need fresh tracks, you need sick features. And I know personally I've dealt with that in the past and been called out like, “Hey, like you shouldn't be posting or filming that here because this is a honey hole.” And I've done a ton of traveling throughout my experience in snowmobiling. And like what was that like?

You don't have to give away any specifics, but did you guys get some push back from anybody? And how difficult was it to navigate through that?

Yeah, that's a great question. There's been a bit of that. You know, it's funny. There's kind of two sides to it. Some people are like, “You're doing a great service for our community. Like, we're stoked to have all these people coming to town and you know, building our winter season.” You know, a lot of places like Island Park are super busy in the summer, just dead in the winter, and we hope that we can drive some snowmobile tourism, right? So a lot of business owners and a lot of locals are stoked about that, but then there's like local riders who may not be, right?

Because they're like, “Oh, Island Park's never been the same since Boondock Nation started coming up here.” You know, literally heard that word for word. But

Meanwhile, Island Park is one of the places that gets carpet bombed with tracks.

Yeah. The Out West Sled Fest paving crew comes through third week of January.

Every time I've ever ridden Island Park, it's been carpet bombed before Out West. Like, it's one of the meccas, right? You're gonna find a lot of tracks,

Right? But my thought has always been if you're a local, you've got the opportunity to ride right after a storm, right? Like hopefully we're getting reset frequently enough that you're still getting good snow in your favorite areas. Second, if the tourists can find your honey hole, it's not that honey, is it? Yeah, exactly. And you're the local, you should be pushing deeper than the tourists.

Now mapping's come a long way in the last few years especially and the accessibility of that whether it's on you know your factory display or on a phone app like OnX that I use a ton that's made it quite a bit easier but still I believe like if you're spending more time in an area versus the tourist that is coming out for a week long trip like you should be able to find some areas that aren't tracked out. Yeah. And that usually squashes the argument. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting one. The honey holes are interesting. There used to be it's like surf spots, you know. You know, growing up on the West Coast near Santa Cruz, I'm not a surfer. I won't ever go surf Santa Cruz because the way the locals treat outsiders. Yo, man, it's nasty. Like, I hear fist Well, I don't know what it's like anymore, but there used to be fist fights. I have friends that live in Santa Cruz. They're like, “Oh, how's come surfing our break?” You whatever. I'm like, “That's crazy.” Like surfers are crazy like that. They like really protect waves and it's because they're like few and far between.

I'm so glad that like generally sledders don't do that.

There are some that have like I've heard some horror stories in Revelstoke about some tires and whatever of people like you know.

Yeah. Like trucks is now stranded. But you it's just really interesting and like you say, like if you're a local, you should be able to push terrain, especially now with our newer sleds, newer technologies, get out there and find the super secret honey hole. And then put in some trapper lines so people can't follow your tracks easily,

Yeah. No, I've seen it. I've seen it in a few areas.

Tough, Dunc, telling all your secrets right now.

I mean, don't follow my tracks. It's probably not going to end well cuz I doubt it ended well for me. It might have been fun, but

Yeah, I can think of a few zones like so upper Midwest, you know, Michigan, upper peninsula. We come back to some of our places we used to ride several years ago that nobody else would ride and it's just like all tracked out. That area has become really popular. But then there's areas too like in Star Valley, Wyoming, you know, that we were going to several years ago and being some of the only guys in there and now it's like not only is the main area tracked out, but over the next ridge is tracked out and like people are really figuring out some of the loops that we used to do and stuff like that.

And it just comes with more and more people getting into the sport and more people like spending time in these areas which I think at the end of the day is a good thing For the sport and the industry. It's a good thing.

Yeah. More better experiences on a snowmobile I think leads to the longevity of the sport, right? Like people have to have good experiences, We need numbers for our sport to survive on a federal and economic level.

Yeah. So Jack, last season when you guys were rolling through last season, did you have a pretty good idea like, “Oh man, this might be like kind of the end or the last way we go about doing it in the way that we've done it in the past.”

Yeah, I could kind of feel it a little bit, you know. Yeah, it's interesting cuz me and Dylan have been really close for a long time and when we're on the road or we're living out west, like we're living together, we're also like executing all the Boondock Nation stuff every day together. All of my problems are his problems and vice versa. And Jordan is there too. Jay Stevs our camera guy. So that's been like, it's a really interesting dynamic because I mean we're spending more time together than a lot of people do with their spouses, right? Like a lot of people have separate jobs, right?

That you go work your job for the day and then you know you're living together at night. But We're working on the same things day in day out. And I think sometimes in an effort to like keep the peace there, you don't always have like some of the harder conversations or like some of the big picture conversations that need to be had. So I could kind of feel it. I could feel a change, you know, from Dylan's perspective a bit. And things changed in the way that we were doing things. Anyway, we weren't we didn't have like a home base out west last year as we usually do. We usually go out like beginning of December, rent a place.

Well, there was like no snow in the Idaho Wyoming region last December If you recall. So we were planning on going out there first week of December and then we pulled the plug on that because well, why would we go out there if we can't ride Was kind of the idea. So I ended up going out. I had a couple sleds to deliver to Cody Hunt in Jackson and I brought my new sled and I brought my buddy Grant Yearling and we were going to try and find a place to ride and we're like driving over Togwotee Pass and we're like there's more snow in Michigan right now than there is at the top of the Continental Divide at Togwotee Pass. So that was scary.

So we ended up driving up to Revy from there. We're like ah what's another 13 hours? You hit it like

Firing when it was December was good up there?

Yeah, it was like either Colorado was good, Colorado got hit pretty early December and Revelstoke got hit, but everything in between was pretty dry. So we're like, yeah, we've already driven 20 hours. What's another 13? So I did get some riding in December, but you know, we did have a lot of stuff that we wanted to shoot and a lot of content to get under our belt and a lot of the stuff we plan on doing in December got pushed into January.

So then we're looking at the schedule and we're like, well, we're going to be on the road like all of January, so it still doesn't really make sense to spend all this money renting a place if we're only going to be there for like 3 days. Yeah. So, we went through January just kind of living like gypsies, hopping from place to place. We stayed at Dave McClure's place in Swan Valley for a while. Then we went to Out West Sled Fest and then we went to Steven Clark's place for a little bit and then dipped down to southern Wyoming, Albany Lodge and then we were in Colorado for a bit.

Just like really on the road and honest like As fun as a sled trip like that is, it's a ton of work too. I mean there it takes a lot just to keep a sled on the snow. For a month or two, you know, when you're riding almost every day. So we've got just tons of parts, tons of gear, all the camera stuff, you know, all piled into the trailer.

Yeah, I was going to say you're living out of the trailer at this point,

Right? I'm stressing about just like keeping batteries charged, like just simple things like that, like transferring data, having, you know, storage and everything. And that's very minute to the grand scheme of things, you know, Let alone every day, right? So, I think that was kind of tough on us, too. You know, we had been working towards trying to have an easier schedule throughout the winter. We usually hit like 8 to 10 big destinations each winter. So, we were talking about let's go to these places for like a whole week.

Maybe ride three or four days, be able to pick and choose our weather days, like pick the best days, be able to have some office days, some maintenance days kind of built in there, spend some more time, get the best shots, get the best interviews, that type of thing. And then we could space it out throughout the winter. That just kind of went completely out the window and then we're like three days in one place onto the next, three days there, five days there. And that was a grind for sure. So by the time we got to February, we're like we had some stuff to do in the Midwest. We came back and then we didn't even want to really ride.

So we did shoot a little bit in the Midwest, but it was another dry spell. So we weren't we didn't really hit the snow, right? And then we had another trip to do to ride with somebody who's like pretty internationally famous. I can't even talk about it yet. We're going to drop some stuff in December That'll be coming out. Probably the most famous person to ever ride a snowmobile. That kind of giving away that really give it away. But yeah, more to come on that. But I'm excited. We came out for that.

We came out for the Fox Factory team ride and just to ride, you know, some decent snow and with some more friends and stuff and shoot whatever we could. But then it was back to the Midwest at the end of February and then

You can't you can't leak, dude. You can't leak.

Dylan and Jordan weren't going to come out after that, you know. So, that's when I packed up, hit the road with the sled deck and both my sleds, backseat of the truck piled up to the ceiling. Bed of the truck with suspension parts, you know, sets of rails, shocks, skis, everything I needed, you know, to get me through the next two months. And that's kind of when I went on a solo mission. And you know throughout that whole process I just kind of realized that things were changing you know and even though it hadn't really been said out loud I just knew that you know things weren't going to necessarily be the same

Yeah as they were the last few years on the Boondock Nation front. So dealing with like an already rough, like kind of a more stressful type of a season and then having that kind of going around in your head probably made it a pretty taxing scenario for you mentally. I would assume like at least if I was in that situation that's kind of how I would feel. But

Yeah 100%. Very tough time for me to be honest, just because I love this so much and the thought of the livelihood being threatened like really shook me up. So it was a lot to think about and when I came back out in the springtime, that was really my opportunity to get introspective and really like do some I don't want to say soul searching cuz that sounds pretty.

You came out here with or without was did Dylan stay back?

Solo March and April. Yep. And that's why I really I'm like I'm going to figure out if I really want to continue to do this or not, like continue to pursue a livelihood in snowmobiling. And the answer I came to was absolutely hell yes.

Do you remember exactly where you were when that answer came to you or was it kind of a gradual from the time you had?

It was super gradual. So I'll tell a little bit of that story. So, when I rolled back out, I rolled right into West Yellowstone for the Octane Expo. It's a new event. Tyler Johnson from Octane Addictions is kind of putting that on. And he wanted Boondock Nation to be involved. He wanted us to help promote it. And he called me kind of upset a couple weeks beforehand. He's like, “Man, I haven't seen anything from you guys. Like, I got no plan.” He was like one of the first people that I kind of told what was going on. I'm like, “Listen, man. Here's the deal.” And he's like, “Okay, I totally get it. I have zero expectations. Do whatever you can.

I got you.” I'm like, “Okay.” Yep. 100%. And he put me on the poster, too, as like a special guest. Which I was stoked about, you know? It's like Turcotte, Saxton, you know, some other guys and Jack Sarama. I'm like, that's pretty cool, you know? So, I'm like, I'm going to go shoot this and try and like do the best I can to help promote this and give Tyler everything I can, as much value as I can. And, being there with those guys, like that was a huge nod, I think, to like continuing on.

And then, during that time, Brett hit me up and he's like, “What are you doing tomorrow?” I'm like, “Nothing.” You know, just setting up for the event. He's like, “Let's go ride in the morning. I got a 26 Polaris dropped off. Want to get some shots? Let's go.” So he and I went out just to get like a couple photos of the sled and stuff and it turned into actually a pretty sick little ride.

And getting to talk with Brett, you know, he's got a ton of experience in this industry and just in life and to be able to explain to him a little bit what was going on and then also just have a great ride with him and really get to know him more. That was huge too. So it was like one thing after another started happening that weekend. After that I went to the FLY Racing shoot. The whole FLY family has been super supportive of us throughout the years and they're shooting the new gear, you know, same thing. Really feeling like the support from those guys and they just embrace me.

You know, even though not with Boondock Nation, not with Jordan and Dylan. We're not shooting. I'm just there as an athlete, right? And then Saxton and Turcotte invited me to go up to Revelstoke. They're like, “Snow's hitting up there. Like you should come.” I'm like, “All right.” Hard to say no to that.

So, Matt Baker, who we've done some filming with in the past, he's from Teton Valley. I said, “Baker, what are you doing next week?” And he said, “Sounds like I'm going to Revelstoke.” So, me and him loaded up. I'm like, “This is great.” You know, we've got Matt who could do some shooting. He's working on a really cool project right now, a film called Resume that's going to drop this fall. So, he had some

Yes. Like, side note here. I've seen a lot of snowmobile content over the last several years and this is some of the best stuff I've ever seen.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's an incredible drone pilot and the drone tech has come so far in the last few years. Like, this is not something that existed 10 years ago in this fashion. And he's so aggressive in the way that he flies drones and extremely cinematic with it. So, I think there's going to be an element to this film that

Yeah. I ran into Matt riding and he had to show me a teaser. We were out on the mountain. He's like, “You got to see this.” He's like, “These guys are going nuts. I've been getting the sickest content.” I'm like, “Whoa, I'm fired up.”

Yeah. He's been working really hard on it. So that was part of his goal going up to Revelstoke. To have the chance to shoot with guys like Caleb and Kyle and Brett and also me going along with him too. I'm like this is great cuz maybe I can get some shots too. And that just turned into an awesome trip. Like being with some of the big dogs up there and being able to hang too, you know, hitting the same jumps. Being able to throw some style into some hits and then also it's just the best conditions of the entire year. Like we got a couple bluebird pow days in Revelstoke and like

Right. Especially in March when the days are longer too and the snow's set up and generally not dangerous. Strap it on. Were you there when Caleb and Ty sent the mega booter that broke the internet?

Yeah. Well, I was up there. I wasn't there on that day. I mean, one thing we don't really like measure jumps in the backcountry at all, but I always kind of keep an eye on air time because that's one way to measure it. And nobody really gets to 4 seconds

That was right there, dude. That was right at 4 seconds.

Like I've done 3.1, 3.2, somewhere. But as soon as you get above that, it's like things just don't go well.

Well, you're flying different. It's not designed to fly that far.

No. No. There's something about it. Nobody really gets the 4 seconds. That was right there.

It's insane. And the camera angle, it just looks stupid. Yeah. That jump survived the spring until I was up there late, like beginning of April. We were up there shooting and we were up at that spot and I'm like whoa, the jump survived. Even like the build was massive and nobody's built it like that. And one of the coolest things Caleb did, he did a social media post about I forget how many years ago they built that same step down. It's a famous gap.

He built it and he showed the difference and the difference in the lip from this year which was just this massive uphill booter to the old one which was like a flat. It was sick. And to see it in person and like I mean I used to I feel like I used to jump big but this is a whole different level and I'm looking now I'm 47. Looking at some standing on that I'm like yeah I will never I have no need to do something like this. Like no thanks. I'm all about family size these days.

Yeah. No, we had such a great couple of days up there, too. And Baker and I were going to leave. It was like Tuesday or something. We were planning on leaving that day and we were looking at the forecast. We're like, there's no way we can leave. You know, it's supposed to be perfect blue. And we went out and just got some of the best clips of the season. And riding with those guys like really pushed me too, you know, it's cool to be in that scene and riding some of the best terrain out there and best snow with some really heavy hitters too.

And so I guess back to how this whole conversation got started, all these things just kept like stacking up one after another. From there going to Jackson Hole Hill Climbs and just like knowing so many people, chatting up with so many people. So, like I walk in the Cowboy Bar, can't even get away from the door for like half an hour, you know, cuz it's just like one person after another and like just feeling all this support. That just like totally changed my perspective and really encouraged me to continue going for this. So that's when I got to work.

Yeah. You know, I knew if Boondock Nation wasn't going to continue in the same way that it has, and me not having any ownership in it, despite what it seemed, you know, I've never had any ownership in the company since day one, even though I was kind of the face of the brand. I realized I had to like not have all my eggs in one basket, you know? So, depending on what happens in the future there, I do have a backup plan now. And launching some of that this weekend at Hay Days. So, I'm super excited about that.

Yeah. Well, we'll get into that here in just a second cuz you've told me a little bit about it. It sounds super rad.

There's info out there, too. You can search.

I did. I did some snooping. I think the other day you made a post of something and I was like, “What is this?” I did some reading. I was like, “This is cool.”

Time out. We'll be right back. We have some wind issues with the Deviant Ink tent.

All hands on deck. Well, this is nice. Greetings everybody. They're having a pow-wow over here because something just happened to the tent. You know, Hay Days is tough. You spend all day trying to figure this stuff out and Friday comes along. You've already been here for a week and then a hole blows out in your tent and you're like, “Oh, this isn't in the plans.” But most of the stuff that happens between now and Sunday is not in the plans. Some of it is, you know, but that's just the reality, you know. It's not just Hay Days, sometimes it's life. So, there's a lot to be learned when you come to Hay Days.

Lesson or two out here on the main strip. Definitely a couple lessons in the swap meet. But the one important thing is that we're here and we do it together. Not just as business partners but as a community. We're all in this together. And that is easily why I love this place. We're surrounded by not our competition, but our partners. This is the snowmobile industry. This is Hay Days, and I love this place. So, I'm here to shoot my first podcast of the event. Here come the electrical guys. Love them. And yeah, we're going to give her hell. So, thanks for tuning in.

They're not even going to know I'm doing this right now, so they'll check in a little later. But, yeah, swing on by. Giving away some cool sleds, selling some stuff, and it should all go pretty well. Mac, what are you doing? Jump on in.

Yeah. What do we got here? What are you fired up about right now?

What am I fired up about? I just had a little, is it a prologue? I don't know. It was like a single person. Well, anyways, I was just talking to the cameras. These guys are hanging out underneath a tarp.

Hey. Whoa. Whoa. We're in the middle of something, gentlemen. What's going on here?

All right. All right. Well, we'll catch you next time on an episode of Sledder Cast. Thanks for chiming in, guys.

That was wild. I mean, anything can happen at Hay Days.

It's not even high winds, but how often do you guys

I think it was just a constant wind. So, let me turn this. This is what we're looking at right here. It used to be a really nice big stretch tent and one of the poles ripped through the top.

Yeah. So, we looked over and Mac was holding that big structure down with one pole and we walked over there and we could see the top of the pole sticking out the top.

I think it's just the last couple days it's been windy and then wet all day yesterday and then today just constant wind from that side.

So, what the boys do, they put some band-aid on there. What they do? Some zip tape. I think I saw the heat gun go in there.

The boys said zip tape would clean that right up.

Takes a village around here. Like a backcountry village. Interesting. Hey, but before we get into Backcountry Village, you were laying it on us there. Jack was surfing the backcountry sledding and divulging

Yes. A hell yes. I believe it was. I'm going to do this. I'm here to stay.

So, I'm gonna take it right back there real quick. Okay. If you could start Boondock Nation all over again, what would you do differently?

Oh man, great question. I think, you know, there's a lot of really cool people out there, a lot of great riders, a lot of funny people, and I would take it more outside of myself. From the beginning. Right from the beginning. You have to have some kind of identity, you know, brand identity, and that naturally gravitates around individuals, at least in this sport, cuz those are the people doing the riding. But I think there's so many cool things to talk about in this world, in this space. And I'm not the one to do all of that. You know, I don't know everything there is to know about racing, for example, or about avalanche education and avalanche safety. You know, those are just two topics that I think could be explored more and more.

I think comparing different types of gear, comparing different types of equipment, you know, that we use. I think there's like avenues that you could go down in this space with all those topics. And I want to explore more of those. But I also want to put more people on in terms of, you know, my experience with production, my experience with sales, my experience with graphic design and marketing. So, I think that I can be an asset to other creators going forward. So, as I move forward, I'm trying to think about that. You know, I can't huck it for views forever, I've been saying.

So I think there will be an element of that in what I do going forward that I'm going to try and take it outside of myself. I've never just wanted to like pursue being a Ski-Doo athlete for example. I've always wanted to have a business that's bigger than me. So if you took me out of the equation, the show still goes on. So that's what I'm going to be working towards in the years to come.

So let's talk about what's next then. We've kind of led into it. I'm going to kick things off though because there is a big change at least relative to what we're doing

Just when we're getting to the good stuff, boys. Hey, do you guys really need us? I feel like a celebrity right now. We get to watch other people work. I think that's how celebrities do it.

Jack knows this. I mean, we've been working on Jack now for a few years. You know, when you run a company, you put some names on the board and you're like, “These guys, I'd really like to work with these guys, right?” And, obviously we've respected, you know, you and Boondock Nation and the partnerships you've had in the past and our paths crossed multiple times during the season. Very respectful.

You guys have been super helpful to us and I think we've been pretty helpful back to you guys even though on a professional stage we didn't work with each other. So, now it feels like it's a good time and we've chatted and we're bringing Jack on as a Deviant Ink athlete and we've got a signature wrap in the works here shortly and so we're pumped. Not sure where it's going to go from there, but it's a fantastic start.

You're like that high school kid who pulls his hat out from underneath the table and says, “I'm going to go play football for…”

Yeah. We're trying not to be too cheesy here.

No, thank you so much. It's really an honor to be part of the Deviant family now. You know, if there's ever a time to do it, I think this is it. I love what you guys are doing in the sport and in the industry and pushing things forward. You're really innovating. Not only with like the experiential stuff, but doing stuff like the podcast, like the Sledder Box, all kind of under the same family. And yeah, appreciate you guys being supportive despite us, you know, being exclusive with another company for the past few years, you know, with Out West Sled Fest, having us on the podcast, all kinds of other stuff like that.

So, thank you for reaching out to me and you know, bringing me in to the Deviant family.

It's a rad family to be a part of. I've actually been with them from the beginning days, man. Well, before I was with Bruce before you guys took over Deviant.

That's what I'm saying. When we took over Deviant, like Bruce told us, you know, make sure you keep Duncan Lee happy.

Well, I'm glad he helped me stay. It's been a cool transition. Just like you said, Jack, these guys are upping the industry. They're upping the community. They don't just care about their bottom line and selling Deviant Ink wraps. They are all about building up this snowmobile community of riders and doing the cool stuff that people want to be a part of. And it's been awesome for me to watch and as the team grows and as you guys grow and the things you're doing, it's really cool to see how it's working. And now we got Jack and another signature series wrap, which is so cool.

I think it's such a fun way to express being a rider on a team and kind of giving something more than just, yeah, this is a cool product.

For sure. Yeah. No, I'm stoked. It's always been a dream of mine and you know, this is like I said, it's been a really transitional time for me. So, when we were first talking and I'm like, “Yeah, you know, here's the deal with Boondock Nation. I don't think things are going to be continuing in the same way.” You didn't really even blink, Trevor. You know, I think it got me really excited that you trust me and what I'm going to pursue going forward and my vision. And that really means a lot to have that support just right out the gate here.

So yeah, thanks again and being here at Hay Days, being right next to you guys and kind of sharing the space with you in Backwoods, too. That's like everything I could ask for. So really appreciate it.

Well, what space is that? What are you sharing here?

Yeah. What do you got going on here, bud? You teased something a couple days ago. Got everyone's hearts pumping a little bit. Backcountry Village. Tell us about it.

So on that display over there that we're building right now, you're going to see Long Track Jack and kind of the launch of my personal brand as well. So I'm going to take a lot of the efforts I've put into generating content over the past few years and really focus that on my personal brand and establishing that for this coming season. But also like I said, don't want it to be all about me and I want to take it outside of me. And part of that is going to be giving back to the community and kind of creating our own community through Backcountry Village.

So, me and some friends, we own 300 acres up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the Keweenaw and it's right off the highway. A lot of people who ride up there will be pretty familiar with this plot of land and we are going to create a kind of self-contained community, action sports community that's going to be four seasons. But my focus as part of this is really going to be on the snowmobiling side. So we're developing part of it into cabin rentals, an RV park. The RV park's almost done. It'll be ready for next summer. And then residences as well, like we're selling out residential lots for people who want to be involved.

But then the terrain is a big part of it, too. So, more than half of it's going to be terrain park. So like I said, four seasons. We'll have downhill mountain bike tracks. We'll have single track dirt bike stuff. We'll have side-by-side rock crawling areas and mud pits. And then it'll all be ridable on sleds in the winter. And we're going to go out there and cut out like a lot of the undergrowth, the little annoying sticks and stuff that get in the way when you're riding that tight of trees. We're going to optimize the tree spacing throughout most of it. And then create features as well.

You know, that's one thing that the Upper Peninsula doesn't really have is open space and areas where you can like practice aired out re-entries and stuff like that. The consequences are so high there. Like when I was learning how to ride up there, I bent so many bumpers and broke so many plastics just because you try something and then there's 10 trees right there in your landing. So we're going to try and create kind of a training grounds, especially for people who want to go out west, for them to be able to come and ride our area and try some of these things.

We're going to build jumps, we're going to build drops, we're going to build all kinds of stuff. And we're going to host a ton of events, too. That's a big part of this as well, we've got space to do events. Whether it's big rideouts or festivals or races or whatever it might be.

Are you gonna have snowmobiles on site? Because it sounds like a really far drive if I want to come out there to bring my sled.

We got you. We got you. And that's one big part of it, the Houghton Regional Airport is just a few miles away. So, people can fly in. We'll have storage there for people who want to keep their sleds there and just fly in. We'll have Jeeps to rent too, you know, especially for bombing around in the summer. I think it'll be really cool. Just cars to get people back and forth or we'll come pick you up and we'll have cool places to stay. You know, it's a great view from our residential lots and our cabin lots. You can see Lake Superior.

You can see the whole Keweenaw Peninsula all the way up to like Mount Bohemia and some of that stuff. There's two ski hills right there too for people who like do both. So we think it's really going to be a cool community for the Midwest and for people who love action sports and especially snowmobiling because me and my friends that are involved in this with me are all sledders, you know, and that's what we really enjoy doing. Obviously the winter's only so long. So we're going to do all action sports, but snowmobiling will definitely be a big part of it.

This sounds absolutely amazing. Like I want to come out and drive a cat and build some really cool features to sled on.

Yeah. I feel like it's every guy's dream to just have some equipment and be able to build like cool jumps and features and stuff and that's what we have here. And there's a ton of natural terrain, too. I mean, there's great drainages and creek bottoms and a surprising amount of topography. So there's even like an old dam on the property, too. Like 120 foot long, 40 foot tall dam where we're going to be able to do wall rides. You know, wall rides might be a little sketch on the sled, but we're going to try it.

I mean, they've been done, so I'm sure you can do it.

Yeah, for sure. And then especially for like the mountain bike scene, I think that's going to be great.

Yeah. It sounds like with housing or cabins and selling lots, it's building a community. Almost sounds like to me like a private water ski lake that sells houses around the lake. And they all have boats and docks and ski every day. But this is like turn the ratchet up, baby. Let's go. Let's get rowdy. Let's have just cool stuff to do out of the house.

Right? And I'm just scratching the surface too to be honest. Like there's so much potential here. And it's all very much underway. So, like I said, the RV park is pretty much done. Utilities are going in right now and it's gonna be graveled and ready for next summer. As for this winter, we're not going to have any lodging or anything available, but we just made like a 3 to 4 acre parking lot. Which doesn't sound like much, but there's a lot of people that come up to ride this area, and there's really no place to park. There's like the town ball fields that people park at. Very limited space.

So, we just blew it out and we made this area that's like similar to a parking lot that you might see out west. Where people can bring their trucks and trailers, they can use it for the day. And that's just like our first step in giving back to the community. I mean the community has embraced us so far and what we're doing and we want to support them too.

Are you guys selling parking passes or what's the…

It's free.

Just free. I can just show up to go ride on your property. And now, is there other public land behind it?

Yes, there is. And there's trail access right there. Like the main vein, the Bill Nichols Trail that runs through the Keweenaw is adjacent. So, you can park there, hop on the trail, go ride your favorite honey holes or access it through our property and get to some really cool stuff, too.

So basically what I'm hearing is you just created a mecca for the UP to have access to all the good stuff plus you're going to get some rowdy features going on. I've never been one to be like, I want to go ride the UP, but now I'm like maybe I need to come out and check this out.

Yeah, it's going to be sweet, man. You know, out west has just changed my life for sure. Still love riding the Midwest. I love the Midwest culture, too, but we're gonna make it some of the best riding that there is around there, I think. And, you know, with Boondock Nation, looking at the audience statistics, no matter where we go, whether it's out east, out west, or up north, the top three states are always Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota. Like, no particular order, but those three states because this is where the majority of sledders are.

More so than all the western states combined even. We're hoping to be able to tap into that and create a place where people can you know really develop their skills and train for out west or just enjoy their weekend in the Upper Peninsula or sled trip up there.

Not have to drive 33 hours to get a little taste of that. Exactly.

You know, one thing we even talked about doing is trying to offer some kind of avalanche education component where people can do their training or at least part of it in our space. So then when they go out west, you know, they're prepared. Because a lot of guys just can't make it work with finding a course that's in the location they're going to on the schedule that they're on. So if we can start doing events like that, like this is all part of our vision and plan.

Yeah. Because when they're out there, they want to be riding, right? Avalanche education is a tough nut to crack, to sell somebody who's driving 33 hours and is going to ride for 4 days and then now you're asking them to spend two or three days in a class. Granted, what they don't understand is when you're with people like myself or other avalanche educators, you're going with the dudes that get rowdy and every day on the snow is an epic riding day. Plus, you get the education. So, it's a difficult one to really sell people on.

But, if there's a way to come out and get a lot of it done hands-on at a location like this, now we can go out and spend one day, maybe a day and a half in the terrain, because terrain identification and understanding how to move through the terrain is the biggest part, or one of the biggest parts of why you need to go do it on the snow. But that would be like, let's talk, let's jam. I'll come out. I love it.

Yeah, I'm just kind of hitting you with that out of the blue. But I think there could be some cool collaboration there where it's like a half and half thing. We get them started and

And we can do rescue like all day long. I need a little location with some snow that we can dig in and we can do rescue. We can train. We can get people to be good at rescue. Granted, that's not the skill you have to have. It's a skill you need, but it's that last case scenario when you already messed up and your buddy's buried in an avalanche. You need to be able to rescue him. It's like the airbag, you know, the airbag is not your first line of defense, it's your last. And same with rescue. Rescue is your last line of defense.

And if it's those skills that you don't have, sorry, your buddy's probably not going to make it and they will probably die, which is bad. So, we need rescue. But more importantly, we need to avoid the avalanches in the first place. Don't get me started.

He wasn't going to let this slide without some avy chat.

You know, that's one of those passionate things that I've found. Going into it, I never knew that it would resonate so hard with me, but it's part of who I am.

I'm with you 100%. That's something that we've always tried to incorporate in all our Boondock Nation events and you've been a big supporter of that. Like, hey Duncan, we want to do something at Out West Sled Fest that's avalanche safety focused. Don't really know what to expect for a turnout or if that's going to work. And he's like, “Yep, I'm there.” No questions asked. So, yeah, that's something, you know, even some of the Ski-Doo seminars that they do in the Midwest, turnout's big. You know, there's an interest from those people who ride out west and they're trying to get as much information as they can.

So, if we can offer some of that, too, I think that'll be a big part of it.

Yeah, that's kind of the overhead view of Backcountry Village. Lots to come. So, yeah, the parking area is going to open this winter. We're going to throw a big kickoff event January 31st. We're actually launching this weekend a snowmobile giveaway as well, which is something I've always wanted to do.

So, this weekend here at Hay Days, if you buy a Deviant Ink wrap, your Black Label Card, you guys are doing a sweet deal that gets you 25% off a wrap. Or you buy some Backwoods BMP parts. That's going to automatically get you entered to win this sled. From there, if you're not here at Hay Days, it'll get you bonus entries when you buy the Black Label Card from Deviant Ink or buy Backwoods BMP products. Those are just going to help you increase your odds, increase your chances. Yeah, we have it on our card. It's a 10x bump. Let's go.

And then from there, if you're not at Hay Days, and this is obviously coming out after Hay Days, you can go check out BCV Garage. So, this is an e-commerce store that I'm launching. We're going to sell partner products, you know, parts that you can buy to dial in your sled, some of the stuff that I've used over the years that I'm a big fan of. It's not going to be everything. But there's going to be some key parts and pieces on there that you can buy to dial in your sled. And then also a lifestyle line that I've been working on as well. A bunch of good wearables. And hard goods to dial in your garage or cabin, whatever it may be.

So, we're going to be doing drops like every couple of weeks here throughout the fall. Every $5 you spend gets you entered to win. We'll be doing some cool promos throughout all that. And this is something I've been thinking about for like years and years. I remember going to college at Michigan Tech in Houghton, which is very close to Backcountry Village, back in like 2015, and typing up a business plan like this because I was watching what like the Diesel Brothers, diesel sellers at the time were doing, like HeavyD and those guys. Like, this is such a great idea. And now more and more people are doing that. The model is obviously proven.

It's something I've wanted to do for a long time. I run a couple other merch stores. So I've been in the lab working on a bunch of designs and cool stuff. It's all going to be super premium quality and really stoked to get this launched and get this rolling. And that's going to be the precursor to the shop that we have at BCV. So then we'll be doing custom builds. We'll be doing some trick trail sled, crossover, and mountain sled builds. And who knows where it goes from there. So about a year from now, we'll have that brick-and-mortar shop launched and people can stop in.

And we'll have a retail element there where we're stocking some of the parts you're going to need that the dealer probably doesn't have. Like I can't tell you how many times I call a dealer for like heated hand grips cuz I broke a set of bars or something and nobody's got them. You know, it's going to be those key parts and pieces that you might break on a sled trip that we're going to have in stock to save the day. But it's going to be full service, too. So, this e-commerce store is kind of the precursor to that and it's all launching right now, you know.

So, when Trevor asked Jack, “What's next for you?” You could have just said a whole lot.

Yeah. And I'm not even done yet, you know. I've got a whole production side of this, too, that I want to really lean into and get started. But it starts with the podcast. It starts with doing the best I can this winter at these events that we have going like Out West Sled Fest, Bent's Camp Radar Run, Octane Expo, Spring Fever, like these things that kind of have anchored the season for us over the past few years. Going to continue on with those.

Okay, I want to tell everybody you're continuing to do the big events. So, you're still doing Out West Sled Fest. That's rad. You're still doing the Octane show in West Yellowstone. You're going to be a part of that. What are the other big ones?

Radar Run is an event that's been going on for a while. We've been pushing that as Boondock Nation. That is in my hometown. It's a big fundraiser for the local club. We raised like $10,000 to $15,000 for them last year. And we're adding a snow drag element to that this year, too. So, it's going to be part of a three event series, the King of the Lake snow drag series. That's what it's going to be called. So the guys from MEC Triplefest, if you've heard of that, they're involved. Lynx Lake Lodge is involved. And then us at Bent's Camp. So that's going down. And then Spring Fever at Beaver Creek Lodge in Utah.

That's at the end of March. So it's the weekend after Jackson Hole Hill Climbs, which is one of my favorite events. So I always encourage people, come for Jackson, stay the week. Like let's go ride and then let's head down to Utah. Beaver Creek is a fun event and a fun location.

Beaver Creek. So cool. It's like après-ski vibes, you know, when everybody just pulls up their sleds to the lodge after a day of riding. We're cooking out outside and they got the bus out there. They had like Heavy D's big sauna cat deal, track sauna, cold plunge thing, and the cauldron hot tub. Yeah, that's just such a cool

Helicopters and sleds and jumps. There's a ski resort right there. And they run a great outfit. Good time. So, those guys have been super supportive. So, yeah, we're full speed ahead on all the events. I'll have the schedule posted up on our website. I've got displays here at Hay Days promoting all that stuff, too.

Which website?

LongTrackJack.com.

You've got a lot to talk about and there's still a lot of work to do and I think we've got about three minutes left of battery on camera. Camera one's still going. Two and three are done.

Well, I guess we'll just have to do this again sometime or tune in to Long Track Jack.

Hold on. What about this fire round coming up?

The fire round. We're going to go fast through this. Okay. If it's a pow bluebird day and you could snap your finger and be anywhere to ride, where would you be?

I know exactly where. I don't know if I want to say the name, back to what we were talking about with honey holes. But it's this one particular spot near Jackson Hole. Kind of situated right on the Idaho Wyoming border. I think I introed a Boondock Nation episode where I'm like, if you could close your eyes and picture the perfect day of snowmobiling, what would it be like? I think this is going to be one of those days. That's the spot. It is like God designed this place for jumps, you know. But the ride in has everything, too. It's got great tree riding. It's got like old growth stuff.

It's definitely a classic for the guys that ride around that area.

If Boondock Nation was a book, what would the title of the last chapter be?

Life changes. You know, perfect title. At the end of the day, we are individuals that make up the nation and any given day, you know, things can change. I think the book has been an awesome one. This last chapter has been super interesting. And that's really the moral of the story, Dylan's really stoked about what's going on in his life and building a family and I'm really stoked to continue on with snowmobiling. So life changes, things are changing. But it's a good ending.

Love it. If all of your memories of Boondock Nation were to disappear tomorrow, they're wiped, man. Gone. And you could only keep one memory, what would it be? You only get one.

You can't ask me that. So many good times. I'm gonna elaborate a little bit here because the riding is one thing, but it's been all the other stuff, too. Like coming to Hay Days, you know, throwing epic parties here, and all the other shows we go to, the other events. I don't know how to answer that question just because there are so many cool things that have been a part of that journey. It's 10 years of memories, 10 plus years.

You know, some of the early days when we were doing stuff that we thought was crazy and in hindsight is super cringe, you know, those were some of the best times when we were really breaking out of our shell and doing this stuff. So, yeah, if I had to pick one, man, I just don't know if I can. I'm sorry to disappoint, but there's just too many good memories and it's been my life for the last 10 years. You know, it's shaped me to be who I am. So, there really isn't one thing that sticks out.

Well, let's see if we can roll into the last question then. What will be the number one thing you will miss most about Boondock Nation as we once knew it?

Yeah. I think you know there's been a fair amount of emotion, all kinds of emotions throughout this whole thing and wrapping my mind around the changes and stuff and you know I was pretty sad just thinking about being here at Hay Days and not having the whole crew here this year. You know, last year was just kind of like peak experience as far as Hay Days went. We had a great setup in our booth. Power hour was popping off. The party was popping off.

So that's one thing that I'm going to miss, I think, really is rolling into these events and having the whole crew and kind of understanding the situation, all being really comfortable with each other and I'm going to miss that dynamic. You know, between me and Dylan and you know, our girlfriends or wives and Jay Stevs being a part of it, too. And then being on the road and living together out west too, like carrying that dynamic from these fall events into the winter and loading up the truck and heading out in that fashion. You know, I'm still going to be doing that, but I'm going to miss those guys being alongside.

How taxing has that been? Like, it's one thing, for example, for me, I live in the mountains. I can ride from my door. I live there year round. When I go on trips I go for a week, maybe two, to go ride and then come home and I'm back where we're riding almost daily. But for you to uproot and travel out west, whether it's renting or living out of the trailer, at the end of the season, like the last 10 years, are you burnt? Are you toast? Are you crispy? Are you like, I need a break, thank goodness for summer, I need to chill? Or are you like, give me more sledding forever?

Yeah, more so the latter. Usually when we're getting to the end of the season, I don't want to leave, you know? I love the summers in the Midwest. I love the lake life. I love everything that I'm up to, but I love snowmobiling so much. Winter's always been my favorite season. It's always been the thing I've looked forward to the most, especially snowmobiling. So when we're getting to springtime in the West, it goes so fast and that's the one thing, when we are starting to pack up in April and get ready to head back, I'm like this feels like we just got here.

You know, I feel like I just got unpacked and settled in and now it's time to pick it all up and move back.

It's like going home after summer camp. Oh my friends, my new friends.

So, doing six months here, six months there, like I've always said it's the best of both worlds. I want to keep doing it as long as I can, but there is some sorrow that comes with packing up. So, that's been my goal, to establish a place that is my own out there. And then have a place back here in the Midwest that is my own, too.

So I can more easily bounce back and forth and keep stuff out there, you know, instead of having to just pack up half my life and move it and then move it back in such short order. So maybe that'll soften the blow a little bit. But no, there's rarely a time where I'm like, I can't wait to be done with snowmobiling. There's never a time. There's certain days where I don't even want to look at a snowmobile, you know, especially if there's been constant mechanical issues or something like that. But when it comes to the end of the season, I'm like, I do not want to give this up.

How do you deal, I don't want to ask what's your love life like, but how do you deal with girlfriends? I don't know your current situation, if you have a long term or a new one. But how is moving out west for the winter to be a sledder dude all winter, how does that affect your relationship?

Yeah, never really dated anybody because of it, you know, it's hard. But I have been in a long-term relationship for almost two years now. And she moved to Texas actually, right when we started dating, for work, and she wanted to get out of the Midwest, too, and check out something new. And I'm like, go for it. You know, I've had the opportunity to go travel and live somewhere else and explore these places. And I want the same for her. And I don't have anything established right now. It's not like I have a house in both places or am able to support her in that way.

So I'm like, “Yeah, absolutely go for it.” Been a pretty independent person. Also been living like a gypsy. So I think it works out well for us now. It's hard at times. We see each other a fair amount. Usually for like a week every month. Maybe more. She was just up north for two weeks. I'll be going down to Texas for two weeks here in October. So you know, it works out well, but obviously it's not a permanent solution to be living apart. But hopefully I can get more established and be in a better spot in my life that supports that, where we can live together and we can, you know, build a future together.

So yeah, it has been tough in that regard. When I'm living all over the place and don't really have solid footing under me, it's hard to build a relationship like that. But it gives me something to strive for, you know, it's super motivating in terms of building a life for myself and not just chasing instant gratification.

That's good. That's cool. Well, Jack, your next chapter here is going to be awesome and

Be fun to be a part of. I'm stoked to go ride as always with you and see where your journey goes.

Appreciate it. We got lots to come, lots to talk about. And I guess we'll just have to do another podcast maybe when I'm back out in Idaho.

Or maybe you should have Trevor on your podcast.

Let's make it happen. We should cross paths in Island Park at least once, I think. So, let's do it. All right. Well, thanks for tuning in. We had a lot going on during this episode. The wind's still blowing. Tent's back up. So, there we go. Jack's got a lot of work, I think, to go get his setup put up over there and get it polished off and then we'll be ready for the show.